Reintroduction: A good or bad idea?

[Gill Catton]

There's also an argument to the fact that we can't reintroduce british wolves or lynx or even beaver, they are extinct, they've gone, there are no more, they have ceased to exist, there may be a few nailed to perches in dusty zoological exhibitions but they are still dead.....

All we can do is tear other wild animals from their native habitat and stick them in our country in a differing climate with differing food sources and sit with our fingers crossed hoping for the best that they don't pick on easier to kill sheep, cattle, capercaillie and pet dogs.....

and if it goes wrong they will be rounded up and removed at best and shot at worst. Whereas if we leave things as they are, these vulnerable animals can be more comfortable in their native homes where they should be.

Countries that still have these animals are frequently struggling to maintain these species as it is, its seems to me again we'd be better off helping them to retain them, rather than trying a re-introduction which probably won't work in anything less than a large fenced enclosure.

If you want to see wolves and lynx in the wild go to a part of the world where they are and pay to go, show these countries what a valuble resource they still have and our sadness at having lost it.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by FlyAgaric

Well id say a wolf has more rights to be in your garden than you do, being it was there long before you came about, or even before humanity came about, and that humanity was ignorant enough in the first place to wipe them out just because of greed and selfishness But I know most will strongly disagree with me there, but that’s cool.

Animals have just as much right to live on the earth as we human animals do. If we intrude on animals homes, which nature is, then we should tolerate them, just like they have to tolerate our mindless destruction of their homes and habitats all in the name of “progress“.

by that way of thinking we have no place at all on the planet as 'animals' were everywhere before us - oh except those that evolved at the same time or even afterwards - they presumably count less?

In fact single celled organisims were here before anything so maybe they should have all the land......

[FlyAgaric]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

by that way of thinking we have no place at all on the planet as 'animals' were everywhere before us - oh except those that evolved at the same time or even afterwards - they presumably count less?

In fact single celled organisims were here before anything so maybe they should have all the land......

I never said that humans do not have any place on the planet, we are animals, its why I called us human animals. I was basically making a point, that we do not own this planet as human rulers, I know we think we do, but we most certainly do not, we share it with other animals, a wolf has as much right to nature and existing in it as we human animals do, we do not have the right to take ownership of something else’s home and then destroy them just because of our arrogance.

I am trying to say that we have a responsibility, being the most intelligent and supposedly "most moral" of animals to make a responsible and moral decision to look after our planet, including the less intelligent animals, and to make sure all animals, including humans, have it fair and have equal rights to the blessings of nature and the planet. Humans are abusing their intelligence, rather than using it to better the planet for all life, but only for their own.

Today humans are using their selfish greedy and irresponsible desires, causing other animals to suffer and even be made extinct, we are making their homes smaller and smaller, and ours larger and larger, that is not the actions of responsible people. Its wrong, no matter how someone tried to dress it up or making excuses for it.

I am not saying animals have more rights to the planet, I am saying we don’t have anymore right than they do. But if you consider wolves and other animals have been around a lot longer than us humans without messing up the earth, and that humans have only been around a relatively short time in comparison and are already threatening the earth, it puts the argument of who has the right to this planet favourably in the wolves court. Sometimes I wonder if us humans really are more intelligent than other animals. We took their land from them, claimed it as our own, and because we are more intelligent, dangerous, aggressive and cruel than the other animals, there was nothing that could be done about it.

Some might disagree with me saying we grew the bigger brain its tough, but if another species on earth was to suddenly grow a bigger brain and gain dominance over us, and then started hunting us humans and farming us and eating us, I am sure you would soon start agreeing with my ideas on this. But us humans like to play ignorant, and pretend its ok to do what we want to the planet, because they think we are in charge, when nature keeps trying to remind us that we only think we are in charge, one day nature is going to do more than just remind us that nature has dominance over us, she is going to show us. Its not the other way around.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by FlyAgaric

I never said that humans do not have any place on the planet, we are animals, its why I called us human animals. I was basically making a point, that we do not own this planet as human rulers, I know we think we do, but we most certainly do not, we share it with other animals, a wolf has as much right to nature and existing in it as we human animals do, we do not have the right to take ownership of something else’s home and then destroy them just because of our arrogance.

I am trying to say that we have a responsibility, being the most intelligent and supposedly "most moral" of animals to make a responsible and moral decision to look after our planet, including the less intelligent animals, and to make sure all animals, including humans, have it fair and have equal rights to the blessings of nature and the planet. Humans are abusing their intelligence, rather than using it to better the planet for all life, but only for their own.

Today humans are using their selfish greedy and irresponsible desires, causing other animals to suffer and even be made extinct, we are making their homes smaller and smaller, and ours larger and larger, that is not the actions of responsible people. Its wrong, no matter how someone tried to dress it up or making excuses for it.

I am not saying animals have more rights to the planet, I am saying we don’t have anymore right than they do. But if you consider wolves and other animals have been around a lot longer than us humans without messing up the earth, and that humans have only been around a relatively short time in comparison and are already threatening the earth, it puts the argument of who has the right to this planet favourably in the wolves court. Sometimes I wonder if us humans really are more intelligent than other animals. We took their land from them, claimed it as our own, and because we are more intelligent, dangerous, aggressive and cruel than the other animals, there was nothing that could be done about it.

Some might disagree with me saying we grew the bigger brain its tough, but if another species on earth was to suddenly grow a bigger brain and gain dominance over us, and then started hunting us humans and farming us and eating us, I am sure you would soon start agreeing with my ideas on this. But us humans like to play ignorant, and pretend its ok to do what we want to the planet, because they think we are in charge, when nature keeps trying to remind us that we only think we are in charge, one day nature is going to do more than just remind us that nature has dominance over us, she is going to show us. Its not the other way around.

Sure but I don't think you're arguement that wolves were here first mean someone should put up with them in their garden which is what you wrote! particularly since they'd only be in a person's garden now since we put them there!

[FlyAgaric]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

Sure but I don't think you're arguement that wolves were here first mean someone should put up with them in their garden which is what you wrote! particularly since they'd only be in a person's garden now since we put them there!

They seem to put up with us barbaric animals in their gardens, id have just thought it polite that we grant them the same respect. id love to see a wolf in my garden myself, although I doubt that would happen, being wolves seem smart enough to stay well out of us humans way, knowing they will probably be killed.

[Blackbrook Eye]

Originally Posted by FlyAgaric

They seem to put up with us barbaric animals in their gardens, id have just thought it polite that we grant them the same respect. id love to see a wolf in my garden myself, although I doubt that would happen, being wolves seem smart enough to stay well out of us humans way, knowing they will probably be killed.

I bet your missis would have to peg the washing out if there was a wolf on your garden . Only kidding !!!

[FlyAgaric]

Originally Posted by Blackbrook Eye

I bet your missis would have to peg the washing out if there was a wolf on your garden . Only kidding !!!

My misses would ask the Wolf to do it for her. Where do you think the wolf in Little Red Riding Hood got its dress from to fool the girl?