Imperial measurements

[kshotton45]

The European Union is set to confirm it has abandoned what became one of its most unpopular policies among many British people. The EU is set to abandon plans for Britain to ditch its imperial measurements system.

BBC NEWS | UK | EU gives up on 'metric Britain'

Freedom !

Keith.

[Meles meles]

Splendid, there was no need to change it any way.

[pressld2]

We must celebrate - make mine a 0.568261485 litres!

Dave P.

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Did they really think they could convert us to having a half litre of beer, I didn't think so.

Mines a pint

Cheers

BWD

[ron1863]

I'm old school and use pints, feet, gallons and inches etc. but my son, who is 25 talks to me in metric, which is what he was taught at school. He will say something like "it's about 50 millimeters long" and then has to hold his hands apart so that I can get a rough idea of what he is talking about.
I don't mind us going back to imperial but the kids who have been taught metric will be in the same boat as me.

[Paul mabbott]

Any more than half a pint ....

Originally Posted by Billy Wobble Dagger

Did they really think they could convert us to having a half litre of beer, I didn't think so.

Mines a pint

Cheers

BWD

[Paul mabbott]

The EU has not given in, it has said that it's up to the British government to do it. Which they should - no wonder we have so many problems with applied mathematicians and scientists (or lack of them) in this country when children don't use the same methodology as most of the world and are often actively discouraged from doing so.

It is a pain when shopping sometimes to have to convert from avoirdupois into decimal - fortunately most of the major supermarkets have long moved onto metric labelling ... those fighting a rearguard action are banging their heads against a brickwall - which is no problem if they like it but they shouldn't wilfully confuse other people and damage their education ....

[Gill Catton]

I prefer metric, I guess that's my age, but it just seems to make more sense everything being in tens!

[Wild-Woman]

Bring back £'s shillings and pence!!!!

And Guineas which was worth 21 shillings which were worth 1 twentieth of a pound.

All beautifully confusing.

[pressld2]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

no wonder we have so many problems with applied mathematicians and scientists (or lack of them) in this country when children don't use the same methodology as most of the world and are often actively discouraged from doing so.

My son has just left school with six grade A A-Levels, including maths, further maths and physics, and he is about to start on a four year MMath degree at the University of Warwick. The sum total of his education in imperial measurements was one week in year 8 (2nd year at secondary school) when they covered conversion between the two systems. And it never came up in any of his exams. In every subject across the curriculum all measurements were exclusively metric - e.g. kilometres in geography, millimetres in DT, grams and millilitres in chemistry.

He, like most people his age, much prefers metric to imperial and if I'm honest I can see why people find it easier to work in multiples of ten. But some of the old imperial systems were not as daft as they look, especially the ones based on twelve (e.g. 12 inches in a foot, 12 pennies in a shilling). This is because of their divisors. If you exclude 1 and itself, 10 can only be divided into half or into fifths without involving fractions or decimals, whereas 12 can be divided into halves, thirds, quarters and sixths. This was quite important before the advent of pocket calculators and precise measuring devices. Which makes 14 ounces in a pound all the more puzzling!

Dave P.

[Gill Catton]

I think my brain might implode if we went back

I got a B grade for GCSE maths but am now completely useless at it!

[galanthus]

Originally Posted by pressld2

But some of the old imperial systems were not as daft as they look, especially the ones based on twelve (e.g. 12 inches in a foot, 12 pennies in a shilling). This is because of their divisors. If you exclude 1 and itself, 10 can only be divided into half or into fifths without involving fractions or decimals, whereas 12 can be divided into halves, thirds, quarters and sixths. This was quite important before the advent of pocket calculators and precise measuring devices. Which makes 14 ounces in a pound all the more puzzling!

Dave P.

Good grief, I need a drink after trying to work that lot out My brain works in metric, taught that in school and also lived away for quite a few years, however, the glass of wine I will pour in 10 mins will be in half bottles

[pressld2]

Sorry galanthus - didn't mean to drive you to drink!

[galanthus]

Originally Posted by pressld2

Sorry galanthus - didn't mean to drive you to drink!

no no no !! Keep them coming

[paulchandler6]

Although I grew up with imperial measures I prefer the metric system and tend to use it. Except for one thing.........The Pint. Cheers

[Paul mabbott]

Oh yes, the duodecimal system has its points, and then computer people and other scientists also find advantage in binary or hex .... but for ordinary mortals what is easiest, least trouble is decimal and, by and large, that is what we have - I've just looked around the house and can find nothing labelled other than in metric. Most tradespeople no longer ask for measurements in inches - I remember the irritation of measuring things up in centimetres and only to be told by a shopkeeper that they only measured in inches (and couldn't do conversions) .

Yes, my main complaint: way back when I was a primary school child, I seem to recall that half of our maths was conversions - not directly avoirdupois to metric but the sort of thing, 'If salt costs 1s 6d per stone what is the price per ton'. This could be complicated by adding in the percentage for purchase tax and how much it would cost in dollars for a particular exchange rate .. A reasonable excercise in arithmetic but we were expected to keep all of these things in our memory (number of ounces in a pound, pounds in a stone, stones in a hundredweight &c). Frankly my limited brain capacity could have been occupied by better things! One of my sons is also doing maths (at Imperial): my attitude with children is don't confuse them so I've never used other measurment systems except as an amusing conversation piece to demonstrate how complex life could be in days of old! My worry is that youngsters are now learning one thing at school and another thing at home - not a recipe for good maths education.

The silly thing was that after I got to secondary school and ever since, as a scientist, I have never used any of these old measures.

You knew a hundredweight (a sack of coal) and a pound (half a bag of sugar) and, of course, a foot (the side of an LP cover - perhaps need to explain what LPs were). I still know some old units and I do think about distances in miles while I'm walking and, of course, pints when I've stopped walking.

Originally Posted by pressld2

My son has just left school with six grade A A-Levels, including maths, further maths and physics, and he is about to start on a four year MMath degree at the University of Warwick. The sum total of his education in imperial measurements was one week in year 8 (2nd year at secondary school) when they covered conversion between the two systems. And it never came up in any of his exams. In every subject across the curriculum all measurements were exclusively metric - e.g. kilometres in geography, millimetres in DT, grams and millilitres in chemistry.

He, like most people his age, much prefers metric to imperial and if I'm honest I can see why people find it easier to work in multiples of ten. But some of the old imperial systems were not as daft as they look, especially the ones based on twelve (e.g. 12 inches in a foot, 12 pennies in a shilling). This is because of their divisors. If you exclude 1 and itself, 10 can only be divided into half or into fifths without involving fractions or decimals, whereas 12 can be divided into halves, thirds, quarters and sixths. This was quite important before the advent of pocket calculators and precise measuring devices. Which makes 14 ounces in a pound all the more puzzling!

Dave P.

[kshotton45]

We're not going back to Imperial measures !

The decision will not affect current law on metric measurements, but means imperial equivalents can be used too.

We shall probably only use pounds(weight), miles and pints.
Our youngsters may have problems with the weights, but both units will be displayed in shops etc.
Miles, they are already familiar with through driving.
Pints, don't tell me they don't know what a pint is !!
Gallons, a gallon is 8 pints, or whenever they start falling over !

Keith.

[Duke of York]

Ever since I started school everything has always been in metric and even now I work in those units so to be honest most of the imperial ones do seem a bit strange. If anybody asks me for a measurement I would always think of metres and millimetres, rather than feet and inches

But there are still somethings that do not seem right if they were not imperial. On the roads it is very hard to imagine km/h and km and I would have no idea how much I weighed in kg or how high I was in metres (which is strange given my previous statement but its true )

I suppose really we should completely convert to the metric system (I would not really mind personally) but it seems as if the imperial weights and measures are another part of our past that we do not want to give up

[Paul mabbott]

It's not "another part of our past that we do not want to give up" - it's a few vociferous old-timers! Don't count me in on the we - I think we should have gone for an outright changeover forty years ago ...

Education aside, I do think that you've highlighted one serious safety point - kph versus mph - while I don't drive, I am often a passenger and worry about the driver's interpretation of the speedo (and the road signs) - both English drivers abroad and French drivers in UK This would be one area where lives might be saved if we had a unitary system, perhaps?

Easy about metres/yards - for day to day use, they're the same thing; for ecological use they're the distance between one foot and another when the legs are at full stretch (at least, in the case of this ecologist) for serious matters (kitchen units, electrical wiring ... ) use a tape measure!

Originally Posted by Duke of York

Ever since I started school everything has always been in metric and even now I work in those units so to be honest most of the imperial ones do seem a bit strange. If anybody asks me for a measurement I would always think of metres and millimetres, rather than feet and inches

But there are still somethings that do not seem right if they were not imperial. On the roads it is very hard to imagine km/h and km and I would have no idea how much I weighed in kg or how high I was in metres (which is strange given my previous statement but its true )

I suppose really we should completely convert to the metric system (I would not really mind personally) but it seems as if the imperial weights and measures are another part of our past that we do not want to give up

[Duke of York]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

It's not "another part of our past that we do not want to give up" - it's a few vociferous old-timers! Don't count me in on the we - I think we should have gone for an outright changeover forty years ago ...

Education aside, I do think that you've highlighted one serious safety point - kph versus mph - while I don't drive, I am often a passenger and worry about the driver's interpretation of the speedo (and the road signs) - both English drivers abroad and French drivers in UK This would be one area where lives might be saved if we had a unitary system, perhaps?

Easy about metres/yards - for day to day use, they're the same thing; for ecological use they're the distance between one foot and another when the legs are at full stretch (at least, in the case of this ecologist) for serious matters (kitchen units, electrical wiring ... ) use a tape measure!

I quite agree, if we were going to change we should have done it at the start but maybe give people a year of both before getting rid of the imperal

I am also not one of the 'we'. I would happily walk into a fruit and veg shop and ask for things in kg but there does seem to be a vocal 'we' who seem to appear whenever a complete change is suggested who think of the metric system as the work of satan (or as they are otherwise known the EU )

[demicav]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

I think my brain might implode if we went back

I got a B grade for GCSE maths but am now completely useless at it!

My brain will explode if we go forward . I work in imperial, it's all I've ever known.

[Paul mabbott]

Of course, basically the few people who know what a pound of carrots is will die off in the interim. In the meantime most people only use pounds (certainly not ounces) when buying in markets. Most of them don't know what it means but have always asked for five pounds of potatoes or whatever ... I've no idea what it is in metric either but by and large I cope by asking for six big ones (for, e.g., roasting pots)
It will die away but just seems a bit of a nuisance for the stallholder who has to show prices in two sets .... and a distraction for the customer who needs to decide which of two prices fit his/her mindset.

This isn't an entirely British problem. I've seen Spanish and French goods priced in pesetas/francs as well as euros ... purely because older people can't adjust to new systems. [This is not an attack on old people - I'm no youngster myself - but find euros far easier to deal with than the multiple currencies you used to encounter across Europe!] Yes, you need an intervening period before changing over entirely.

Originally Posted by Duke of York

I quite agree, if we were going to change we should have done it at the start but maybe give people a year of both before getting rid of the imperal

I am also not one of the 'we'. I would happily walk into a fruit and veg shop and ask for things in kg but there does seem to be a vocal 'we' who seem to appear whenever a complete change is suggested who think of the metric system as the work of satan (or as they are otherwise known the EU )