Green Councils??.....or just plain useless!!

[Monkster]

On a trip to town this week I noticed that there were more than the usual amounts of greenery growing out of the pavements, in front of peoples houses and even growing out of the tarmac on the roads!
Now, I tread these pavements all the time but this year everywhere is looking more overgrown and uncared for than ever.
I've also noticed that many mini-ponds are developing in every road I see, known to the untrained eye as 'pot holes'!
The councils do try I suppose, they have planted lots of new trees in certain areas around here, but then nobody ever seems to water them leaving them to battle for survival when there is no rainfall. I wonder why householders don't look after them? I expect they just assume they are being attended to by the relevent council departments. I bet most people would help out if only they knew.....communication is all it takes!
Is anyone else experiencing worsening conditions? Or are they staying the same? .....or is anywhere even better?
I feel despair that my own town is looking so run down.
Is it all down to money, inadequate leaders, apathy or are they just plain useless??

[nightshade]

It is usually down to cash,so when (for instance) Somali orphans turn up
and have to be housed the money must come from somewhere,so the
council rob Peter to pay Paul

[demicav]

Originally Posted by nightshade

It is usually down to cash,so when (for instance) Somali orphans turn up
and have to be housed the money must come from somewhere,so the
council rob Peter to pay Paul

Yes, I agree. I could go on forever but I better not mmm

[Paul mabbott]

This is interesting - shows how peoples' views vary. When I first came here we used to get all sorts of plants growing on the streets (nothing rare - centaury, ragwort, poppies &c) which attracted a lot of invertebrates. Most of us thought them very attractive and useful.
However, one political party took the same view that you do and now we have regular spraying (of glyphosate, I suppose) and bare streets (also bare patches in the gardens because they're not too careful). Some of us are pressing for the weed-killing to stop ... So, I would be happy with your situation but am sad about ours, which you, apparently would prefer .... It's a funny old world.

Ditto potholes in roads - I used to be furious to see a couple of men spending several days filling in little holes in the road - at great expense both financially and environmentally - when they could have been doing something more useful. As a cyclist, yes, I did have problems with potholes from time to time - just learned to ride more carefully! Obviously there are different grades of potholes and some are seriously bad but I do think that in most backstreets cars should not be travelling at more than 20mph and small holes in the tarmac are no problem. .... I have, nationally, been pleased to see that councils increasingly are not wasting money and energy smoothing out urban roads on an annual basis .... so, there we go, opposing views again!

Originally Posted by Monkster

On a trip to town this week I noticed that there were more than the usual amounts of greenery growing out of the pavements, in front of peoples houses and even growing out of the tarmac on the roads!
Now, I tread these pavements all the time but this year everywhere is looking more overgrown and uncared for than ever.
I've also noticed that many mini-ponds are developing in every road I see, known to the untrained eye as 'pot holes'!
............I feel despair that my own town is looking so run down.
Is it all down to money, inadequate leaders, apathy or are they just plain useless??

[goosey]

Originally Posted by Monkster

The councils do try I suppose, they have planted lots of new trees in certain areas around here, but then nobody ever seems to water them leaving them to battle for survival when there is no rainfall. I wonder why householders don't look after them?

In our town many streets are tree lined and look great. But what I really like is that a lot of people look after the tree in front of their house and under plant it. So you have whole street with lots of personal plant preferences under "their" tree. People care for the plants and even edge the plot, it really does look cheerful. The council actually maintain the trees of course, but the little bit of ground under it can be cared for by anyone.

[Bambi]

At this time of year, not a day goes by when I can ride to school without getting covered in grass! The grass is always being cut and with all the well upkept trees it looks really nice. The worst thing is when the flowers die and only the stalks are left. However, over the years the planting of flowers has got less, which is a shame, because it always looked so pretty.
The thing what really gets me, is that there is less money being spent on things like that, but you don't really get to see any improvements in the areas where money ís being put into...

~*~Bambi ~*~

[Monkster]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

This is interesting - shows how peoples' views vary. When I first came here we used to get all sorts of plants growing on the streets (nothing rare - centaury, ragwort, poppies &c) which attracted a lot of invertebrates. Most of us thought them very attractive and useful.
However, one political party took the same view that you do and now we have regular spraying (of glyphosate, I suppose) and bare streets (also bare patches in the gardens because they're not too careful). Some of us are pressing for the weed-killing to stop ... So, I would be happy with your situation but am sad about ours, which you, apparently would prefer .... It's a funny old world.

Ditto potholes in roads - I used to be furious to see a couple of men spending several days filling in little holes in the road - at great expense both financially and environmentally - when they could have been doing something more useful. As a cyclist, yes, I did have problems with potholes from time to time - just learned to ride more carefully! Obviously there are different grades of potholes and some are seriously bad but I do think that in most backstreets cars should not be travelling at more than 20mph and small holes in the tarmac are no problem. .... I have, nationally, been pleased to see that councils increasingly are not wasting money and energy smoothing out urban roads on an annual basis .... so, there we go, opposing views again!

Yes I can see your point and I suppose in an ideal world any greenery is better than none and money saved on filling pot holes is better spent on ’more important’ issues.

But it’s not an ideal world and all this erosion of roads causes problems for many people. If left pot holes would end up stretching the width of roads ( I can see and feel them getting bigger and deeper every week!) causing problems to motorist and cyclist alike . Be they experienced and careful drivers/riders , people driving/riding at night or more importantly young children being encouraged to get on their bikes. They shouldn’t be risking life and limb manoeuvring in traffic and watching where their tyres are going! Bike lanes would be another option, we have some but unfortunately none on the smaller streets where the pot holes tend to occur.

I’ve seen pot holes being filled in( not very often I must admit )and then a day later most of the substandard tar is strewn across the road again. Not very cost effective either.

I’ve just been investigating a little further about the weed control here and discovered that we actually have a street care team which look at the worst affected areas for weeds and then set about digging them out . This is because weed spraying has proved inadequate, good idea but must be very time consuming hence the number of weeds appearing everywhere else!

You’re right though this is a difficult problem with no real answer and I‘m sure everyone does have a differing opinion, but everything just seems to be going backwards here at the moment and it just makes me wonder what things will be like in the future.

It’ll probably resemble a pit filled jungle…..…plenty of photo opportunities though!!

[Paul mabbott]

Yes, it's far from an ideal world! Obviously, with 'pot-holes' we're into quantitative things - 5 cms wide and 1 cm deep is no problem, but when you get ones which are seriously deep then they become a serious hazard ... particularly to people on two wheels. Your point about youngsters is very true - I suppose one could argue that if the motor traffic is going very slowly then they're in less danger? It's a very nice point as to when you should fill them in ... deep ones should, probably, be filled in asap whereas minor cracks can be ignored until they become a problem?

On the weeds, I'm perfectly clear - if a plant grows, leave it! If people don't want "weeds" growing outside their houses then they can pull them up themselves ... no big deal!. I actually think that the centaury, for instance, was far more attractive than many of the things that people plant in their gardens ... but it's rather a personal thing, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Monkster

Yes I can see your point and I suppose in an ideal world any greenery is better than none and money saved on filling pot holes is better spent on ’more important’ issues.

But it’s not an ideal world and all this erosion of roads causes problems for many people. If left pot holes would end up stretching the width of roads ( I can see and feel them getting bigger and deeper every week!) causing problems to motorist and cyclist alike . Be they experienced and careful drivers/riders , people driving/riding at night or more importantly young children being encouraged to get on their bikes. They shouldn’t be risking life and limb manoeuvring in traffic and watching where their tyres are going! Bike lanes would be another option, we have some but unfortunately none on the smaller streets where the pot holes tend to occur.

I’ve seen pot holes being filled in( not very often I must admit )and then a day later most of the substandard tar is strewn across the road again. Not very cost effective either.

I’ve just been investigating a little further about the weed control here and discovered that we actually have a street care team which look at the worst affected areas for weeds and then set about digging them out . This is because weed spraying has proved inadequate, good idea but must be very time consuming hence the number of weeds appearing everywhere else!

You’re right though this is a difficult problem with no real answer and I‘m sure everyone does have a differing opinion, but everything just seems to be going backwards here at the moment and it just makes me wonder what things will be like in the future.

It’ll probably resemble a pit filled jungle…..…plenty of photo opportunities though!!

[peppermint]

i would just like to make a comment about the pot holes in roads issue. I dont like pot holes in roads, i used to cycle 25 miles a day when i worked in Bristol (12.5 there, 12.5 back). I hated them as i was constantly looking out for them, swerving to avoid them and generally hated sitting on my seat on 'bad' roads.
but..... i would also like to say that i think British roads are maintained so much better than the ones i have driven across in Canada recently. These are the worst roads i have ever been on (i havent been to Africa or poorer nations where i expect Canadian road are a dream in comparison). Compared to the way Canadian roadshave been kept, and i am talking about the trans-canada highway and similar roads, not dirt tracks in the wilderness, the British councils do a good job.

[goosey]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

On the weeds, I'm perfectly clear - if a plant grows, leave it! If people don't want "weeds" growing outside their houses then they can pull them up themselves ... no big deal!. I actually think that the centaury, for instance, was far more attractive than many of the things that people plant in their gardens ... but it's rather a personal thing, isn't it?

Quite a few years ago Ivy leaf Toadflax was growing out of the gate and up the front garden wall of a house ten doors up. Over the years it has spred down the street and reached us last year. Some people have pulled "the weed" up outside their house. I on the other hand love it growing round our gate and this year inside the front garden. Last year I wanted to buy some to cover a step area in the back garden and was told in one garden centre they didn't sell weeds, luckily I was able to buy it somewhere else. It is such a delicate pretty flower - why would anyone actively get rid of it or other wildflowers, when they'll happily pay for flowers that have been bred so much for the perfect, long lasting regimental flower with no smell and absolutely useless to insects. Sorry, I think I have gone off on a tangent .

[Monkster]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

, with 'pot-holes' we're into quantitative things - 5 cms wide and 1 cm deep is no problem, but when you get ones which are seriously deep then they become a serious hazard ...

Right then, I concede about the weeds Let them grow
But I'm not on about small pot holes I probably wouldn't even notice them or cracks but I'm talking about the ones approximately 14inchs x 7 inches by 3 inches deep in busy roads.(obviously I haven't had a chance to measure them accurately for fear of being run over!)
It's just an observation in my town but obviously everyone else is much luckier.

[Paul mabbott]

I think Monkster's original mail was talking about two different things which leads to some confused responses. Going back to the potholes in the roads (and I'm more concerned by holes in pavements, personally!). I think we need to consider who is responsible. Sure, it's the local authority that has to mend them but who creates them in the first place? In many cases the large holes result from skimpy filling by utilities who have dug holes for cables, pipes &c. One particular problem, in our local streets is that builders place skips &c on the road (or the path) which cause cracks in the tarmac &c.. Lorries unloading heavy materials put down supporting legs which dig into the road and so on and so on ...
Shouldn't these people be responsible for repairing the damage they've done? It seems, to me, impossible or inordinately expensive for the council's workforce to go around filling these holes up ....

[svenrufus]

The bottom line in this debate is 'How much are you prepared to pay for this?'
I hear lots of people complain about things that their council are not doing at all or well enough, but I often hear the same people complain that their council tax has gone up again. More and more duties are being placed on council's shoulders, therefore more and more costs to bear. If we as residents are not prepared to pay for this in direct tax or Council Tax, the council has to make savings somehow. To my mind a few 'weeds' and to a lesser extent, a few potholes, is a small price to pay to make sure that the most vulnerable children and adults get the social service care that they need (and all the other essential front line services they provide). It's a question of priorities.

[DaiTheDragon]

I thought the councils put the potholes there on purpose to give the suspension on 4x4’s something to do.
A weed is only a weed if you don’t like it.

Dai

[nightshade]

Originally Posted by DaiTheDragon

I thought the councils put the potholes there on purpose to give the suspension on 4x4’s something to do.
A weed is only a weed if you don’t like it.

Dai

ROFL

[Ipso Facto]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

... we have regular spraying (of glyphosate, I suppose) and bare streets (also bare patches in the gardens because they're not too careful). Some of us are pressing for the weed-killing to stop ...

I hate to see the dead, brown margins of grassy areas along the roads - I am also a bit concerned about my dog picking something up that could harm his health ... I'm a bit paranoid about this having already lost one in a poisoning incident - I don't want to go there again!

The council (I assume it was them) have also uped the anti this week. The pavement along the main road was gradually getting narrower as the grass encroached but it has now been physically cut back leaving an uneven 9" step between pavement and grass. The pavement is probably 18" wider but it looks awful!!!

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by svenrufus

The bottom line in this debate is 'How much are you prepared to pay for this?'
I hear lots of people complain about things that their council are not doing at all or well enough, but I often hear the same people complain that their council tax has gone up again. More and more duties are being placed on council's shoulders, therefore more and more costs to bear. If we as residents are not prepared to pay for this in direct tax or Council Tax, the council has to make savings somehow. To my mind a few 'weeds' and to a lesser extent, a few potholes, is a small price to pay to make sure that the most vulnerable children and adults get the social service care that they need (and all the other essential front line services they provide). It's a question of priorities.

apologies for the following being off topic....

But well, I was watching the modern history of Britain the other night and made me very very thankful that I am alive today and have it so easy compared to the late 40s (not to mention the war)....
I couldn't believe it when I saw that the power stations had to close because snow closed the railways and they couldn't get coal!! Or that by 1947 the Royal Navy had only one serving battleship.......

Astonishingly lucky that's what we are really.......