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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 19-04-2010, 11:25 AM
RedFish's Avatar
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Thumbs down The Costs of Nuclear Power.

Apparently Nuclear is the least safe option for providing energy, just a shame that most of us only judge 'safety' by what is cheapest...
http://weblog.greenpeace.org/nuclear..._fataliti.html

Last edited by RedFish; 19-04-2010 at 11:26 AM. Reason: your url feature don't work..
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Old 19-04-2010, 11:35 AM
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Re: The Costs of Nuclear Power.

and of course green peace are a completely unbiased source

also do you know what the comparable fatality figures are for those killed in mining and oil drilling related accidents - I'd be willing to bet that they are higher than 4100 for the same period (and that is without considering possible fatalities from climate change related weather events)
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Old 19-04-2010, 11:47 AM
Frozen
 
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Re: The Costs of Nuclear Power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyore View Post
and of course green peace are a completely unbiased source

also do you know what the comparable fatality figures are for those killed in mining and oil drilling related accidents - I'd be willing to bet that they are higher than 4100 for the same period (and that is without considering possible fatalities from climate change related weather events)
Yep agreed nuclear power is the safest in that there has been less fatalities attributed to it in comparison with other energy producing ways. But it is still a huge problem to destroy or store the radioactive by-product. In my eyes the only safe option of nuclear waste disposal is to transport it into space and send it on a one way mission towards the sun.

Once it is within a certain distance from the sun it would be pulled in by gravity for those who were about to point out that nothing could get close enough without melting lol
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Old 19-04-2010, 01:13 PM
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Re: The Costs of Nuclear Power.

Presumably, since you cite the article (of which the Greenpeace item quotes extracts) for reference without counter argument, you are in agreement with its content? – In which case it is interesting to note that you attack nuclear power generation under the premise of “safety”, and omit any mention of the safety record of other energy sectors: -

The article (linked in the first line of the Greenpeace item) states: -
QUOTE
“While responsible for less than 1 percent of total energy accidents, hydroelectric facilities claimed 94 percent of reported fatalities. Looking at the gathered data, the total results on fatalities are highly dominated by one accident in which the Shimantan Dam failed in 1975 and 171,000 people perished”.
UNQUOTE


It further states: -
QUOTE
“natural gas infrastructure is the most likely to fail, accounting for 33 percent of all major energy accidents worldwide”.
UNQUOTE


And goes on to state: -
QUOTE
“A database of major industrial accidents from 1969 to 1996 compiled by the Paul Scherrer Institute found that 31 percent, or 4,290 out of 13,914, were related to the fossil fuel sector. Another assessment con¬cluded that about 25 percent of the fatalities caused by severe accidents worldwide in the period 1970 to 1985 occurred in the fossil fuel energy sector”.
UNQUOTE


With specific regard to nuclear energy, the article states; -
QUOTE
“In terms of cost, nuclear plants ranked first with regard to their economic damage, accounting for damages equivalent to $16.6 billion, or 41 percent of all damages during the past century. Contrary to the industry’s claim that nuclear facilities are safe, 63 major accidents have occurred at nuclear power plants. Twenty-nine accidents have occurred since the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, and 71 percent of all nuclear accidents, that is, 45 out of 63, occurred in the United States, refuting the notion that severe accidents cannot happen within the country or that they have not happened since Chernobyl.
Using extremely conservative estimates, nuclear power accidents have also killed 4,100 people. The nuclear power accidents have involved meltdowns, explosions, fires, and loss of coolant, and have occurred during both normal operation and extreme, emergency conditions such as droughts and earthquakes”.
QUOTE


Noting that the definition of a "major accident" in this article’s context is loss of life, or more than $50,000 property damage, the article states: -
63 “major accidents” have occurred at nuclear plants (within the study period 1907-2007)

But note the 4,290 major accidents between 1969-96 as cited above for the fossil fuel sector).

Using that same criteria – there were 188 major accidents in the Chinese coal mining industry within just three years (Jan.2001-Oct.2004) each of which killed more than 10 miners. (source: - Coal mining: Most deadly job in China).

I contend that nuclear, with only 63 major accidents is remarkably safe in comparison.

It may well be that the nuclear power station accidents were economically the most costly, at $16.6billion, but they were certainly nowhere near the most costly in terms of lives lost.

And, even taking the $16.6billion into account, nuclear power when compared to any other form of electrical generating technology continues to be one of the most economic.

Perhaps the most pertinent remark within the article is this: -
QUOTE
"there is no such thing as safe conventional energy technologies, much in the same way there is no such thing as an energy system that is completely benign to the natural environment".
UNQUOTE


Regards,
Mike.
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Last edited by Lancashire Lad; 19-04-2010 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 19-04-2010, 02:05 PM
RKB RKB is offline
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Re: The Costs of Nuclear Power.

Once an organisation starts undertaking 'direct action' (also known as terrorism or anarchism by some people on occasion), starts publishing its 'research' in its own journals to get past the pesky requirement for factual objectivity found in scientific journals, and is disowned by its own founder, then you know that whatever it says is worthless. That's Greenpeace.
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Old 19-04-2010, 06:26 PM
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Re: The Costs of Nuclear Power.

Quote:
the only safe option of nuclear waste disposal is to transport it into space and send it on a one way mission towards the sun.
What happens if (or when) there is an accident on takeoff or even worse while in flight, yet still within our atmosphere!!... not happy days.

Fuzzy Felt Bloke
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Old 19-04-2010, 06:55 PM
Frozen
 
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Re: The Costs of Nuclear Power.

Quite a good point lol lol it'd be worse than Chernobyl
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:09 PM
RKB RKB is offline
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Re: The Costs of Nuclear Power.

Deep earth repositories are safe enough. Waste disposal is a political issue (nobody wants it) rather than a logistical issue (it works).

Do we ban petrol stations because they sometimes explode? Do we ban oil platforms because of Piper Alpha? Do we ban petrochemical depots because of Buncefield? Do we ban wind turbines because the blades have fallen off a couple of them? No, we accept some kind of risk with everything. Even when there are accidents with nuclear, radiation is not really any different to dioxins or benzyls in magnitude and longevity in the environment. Let alone CO2.
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Old 19-04-2010, 10:03 PM
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Re: The Costs of Nuclear Power.

also if we use fast breeder technology we can reuse the first generation nuclear waste as fuel - the only problem then is getting rid of the plutonium , once we have made more than is needed in weapons manufacture.
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Old 20-04-2010, 01:57 PM
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Re: The Costs of Nuclear Power.

If you count the deaths fron Radiation related disorders the safety record is atrocious. In 2003 I went to Ukraine. The deaths from Cancer there have risen dramatically since the chernobyl disaster and they are still occuring.
The deaths from birth deformities in children is something that has to be seen to be believed not to mantion the terrible suffering of the deformed when born etc.
May I remind everyone that there are still a number farms in North Wales who cannot sell produce on the open market due to contamination from the same source.
Doubtless this is refelected in other parts of the world where there have been accidents which no-one has noticed and have been unreported.
Where I live -not too far from Dounray-there seems to be an epidemic of various cancers (nothing to do with radiation of course). Currently I know more folk with cancer that I do with heart disease. I have lost more friends with cancer in the last 2 years than from any other cause. (nothing to do with radiation of course).
Dave
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