Vegetable Oil Biodiesel Cars

[StuartDH]

Has anyone had a go in one of these biodiesel cars that run on vegetable oil.

Ten years ago the transport guys in my Royal Engineers unit stuck 5 gallons of vegetable oil mix (probably about 20%) in a Land Rover and it worked fine. They only did it for half a day then stripped the engine down before someone found out

http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/ne...ls-forest-cars

As long as it doesn't stink too much, I'd have one tomorrow.

[fbcpmike]

Originally Posted by StuartDH

Has anyone had a go in one of these biodiesel cars that run on vegetable oil.

Full biodiesel or a proportion?

Nope, not yet, but I've been tempted to try it in our car, it's an old Fiat that allways runs better in France where the Diesel has a high proportion of biodiesel in it. It has a mechanical injection system, don't know how the modern common rail electronic engines would fare.

Originally Posted by StuartDH

Ten years ago the transport guys in my Royal Engineers unit stuck 5 gallons of vegetable oil mix (probably about 20%) in a Land Rover and it worked fine. They only did it for half a day then stripped the engine down before someone found out

How did it turn out ?

http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/ne...ls-forest-cars

Originally Posted by StuartDH

As long as it doesn't stink too much, I'd have one tomorrow.

Lots of tales abound of cars run on old fish fryer oil leaving a trail of fishy odour behind them !, but that stuff need filtering and treatment (I thought you had to add a small amount of methanol, could be wrong). What's galling is it's cheaper to buy a regular cooking oil from Tesco's and put that in your tank. Google for "biodiesel", hundreds of returns, there is quite a cottage industry out there.

[StuartDH]

Either full or part biodiesel. I see that the forestry commission are running a couple on full, but most at less than 30%.

The Land Rover seemed to work fine. I remember watching them tear off into the local woods like Mr Toad in Wind in the Willows and then came back 20 mintues later looking like they'd just invented the motorcar

Come to think of it, they did put a little bit of something else in, which could have been methanol, but they also added a sprinkle of salt and pepper, so it wasn't exactly scientific

[henrya]

BBC Radio Cambridgeshire interviewed a chap a few weeks ago who was using recycled oil from a kebab shop. He filtered it, stewed it with something (maybe methanol, but I can't recall) and off he went. It was all above board as he was paying tax to C and E - he said he would have been given away by the distinctive smell from the exhaust. Big advantage - kebab shop owners have to pay to get the waste oil disposed of safely, so when he asked if he could have some, the shopman carried it round to his house for him, only too pleased to get rid of it.

henrya

[fbcpmike]

Originally Posted by StuartDH

The Land Rover seemed to work fine. I remember watching them tear off into the local woods like Mr Toad in Wind in the Willows and then came back 20 mintues later looking like they'd just invented the motorcar

Poop poop

A diesel engine should run on pretty much any oil type within reason, its the residues left behind in the engine / fuel system and the particulates in the exhaust that do the damage.

[Boddie]

We had a spate of this in Birmingham, cheaper than diesel but everyones cars stank of chips and I believe the police came down heavily on offenders

[nightshade]

I can remember supermarkets refusing to sell veggie oil after people were buying entire stocks up to fuel their cars

[nightshade]

in the village of Corston, near Bath, is Fields farm it uses no fossil fuels but burns flax from its linseed oil production

[henrya]

I heard a report on the wireless that C&E, in their wisdom, have said that biodiesel made from waste cooking oil is not (or no longer) eligible for tax discount, which seems likely to put those small firms making it out of business.

henrya

[Chris]

Originally Posted by StuDH

Has anyone had a go in one of these biodiesel cars that run on vegetable oil.

Ten years ago the transport guys in my Royal Engineers unit stuck 5 gallons of vegetable oil mix (probably about 20%) in a Land Rover and it worked fine. They only did it for half a day then stripped the engine down before someone found out

http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/ne...ls-forest-cars

As long as it doesn't stink too much, I'd have one tomorrow.

Hi,
With regard to biodiesel.Europe has been using it (in various percentages mix) for a number of years. There is a large plant at Motherwell in Glasgow (Argent Energy)that supplies a 5% blent to a number of outlets including Tesco. For people to make their own try www.bioking.co.uk The customs & Excise people have said that companies manufacturing biodiesel through a chemical process (transesterification) will be allowed a reduced tax(27.1 pence per litre). For people using straight vegetable oil then its 47.1 pence per litre. Hope this is of help?

Chris

[Helen]

Hi Chris and welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the link and the information, look forward to more of your contributions here.

Regards

[Vegoilrecycler]

Hello all!

I was just browsing the net looking for people talking about Biodiesel so that I can spread the word.

Biodiesel production is a fairly simple process that can be set up on a small scale in your garage to make enough fuel for your own vehicles. The only real problem with this scale of production is getting hold of the required chemicals to do the reaction on the waste vegetable oil.

Having said that it can end up being quite a messy job when dealing with waste veg oil and the likes.

I actually have a Biodiesel plant set up in Liverpool and we supply the Yellow Duck Marine
based here in Liverpool with around 1000 litres a month in winter and 1000 litres a week in summer.

You can run all deisel vehicles on the road today on varying blends of biodiesel. All of our diesel is produced to minimum European requirements and filtered down to 10 microns to protect all of our customers.

We are able to supply Bio100 (100% biodiesel) from a pump at our premises or supply biodiesel in 25 litre containers or 1000 litre IBC's.

Any questions about biodiesel and I will be happy to provide some answers.

[Jo Pedder]

do you know anything about alternative fuels for petrol cars?

[Vegoilrecycler]

Originally Posted by Jo Pedder

do you know anything about alternative fuels for petrol cars?

Yes I have owned several LPG converted vehicles and can highly recommend it if you are keeping your car long enough to make back the initial outlay of conversion (about £1500)

With LPG your car will perform virtually the same with perhaps a 5% reduction in performance and will delivery the same fuel economy but with fewer emissions and cheaper fuel at the pumps (typically 40p a litre)

Other than LPG in this country there is very little option. In the rest of Europe there is a lot more interest in Bioethanol (produced from organic matter) and there are one or two producers in the UK it will most probably be the next big thing but production is by way of fermentation of biomass.

Bioethanol can be substituted for petrol entirely or in any proportion of Bioethanol to petrol. It will be a while but I am sure it will also start to take off in the near future.

have a look at my website for more information on Biodiesel and I will do some more research into Bioethanol over the next few months and add a page to the site for petrol car users.

The Alternative Fuel Company

For cheaper petrol check out Petrol Prices an interesting and free website that tells you the pump prices 10 miles around your area.

[Vegoilrecycler]

UPDATE!

Bioethanol is currently available in a 5% blend at over 250 Tesco petrol stations in the South-East of England. This petrol is supplied through ordinary unleaded petrol pumps and is not identified as bioethanol-blended petrol. It is not yet possible to specifically buy bioethanol-blended petrol at petrol stations in the UK

[rhubarb]

vegoilrecycler - I am very keen on running my Renault Laguna on 100% biodiesel, but I am having trouble getting hold of 1000 litres. You say that you can supply it but how can I get in touch with you?

[slipperystav]

Vegoilrecycler, I'm realy interested in what you do and your prices, and currently trying to make my my Biodiesel legit through correct tax forms.

Can you help me?????

I'm based on the Wirral so if you post your address, I'll come over, or can you contact me through a PM on this site? Thanks.

[Airehead]

Vegoilrecycler:
I am wary of the chemistry involved here - cooking oils seem to oxidise and/or polymerise rather easily to produce a sticky gel which even if it only happens to a small extent will eventually make a mess of any engine.
Am I wrong to worry about this?

[Varan Komodosky]

There is 101 ways of making your own diesel. Good link http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html
Pretty good site altogether actually.
If you want to burn straight veggie oil you need to mod your fuel system, you need to preheat the fuel and the pressure to the injectors needs to be increased.
Pretty straight forward really.

[slipperystav]

I have read that conversion is usually through a couple of route.

1. Modified Veg. Oil has an additive (usualy along the lines of white spirit or others) that destroys natural rubber, so wary of replacements.

2. Pre-heaters as the flash point for Bio (at least for 100% veg) is around 133C compared to around 113 for Diesel (can't remeber the exact!) so pre heater needed untill the engine is up to heat.

3. Injecters clogg up quicker. Either regular flush through on an suitable Halford cleaning fluid or special injectors can be fitted.

4. Upgraded glow plugs to aid starting in colder weather.

The rest should be regular, ordinary check ups (oil, water, fuel filters, cam, etc....)

I've come across a lot of really good research from various sources. I've been looking into it through using the search for powerpoints option in Google then creaming off any research from the past 3 months or so. A lot of good stuff out there.

[RogerTheCat]

I work with someone who drives a landrover that has been converted to bio diesel. It seems to run ok. The two downsides seem to be the cost of conversion as i is recommended that you have a heater system fitted on the fuel line to heat the bio and that now the Gouvernment has started to tax it. I know in South Wales there were stories in the local press about people using old chip fat and just pouring through a strainer to get the lumps out and straight into the fuel tank. No idea how well this worked but I think you had to mix the bio with regular diesel

[Greenplanet]

I thought I would bring this subject backto life as it is very topical at present.

There seem to be a lot of misconceptions regarding Biofuels, several of which are present on the previous postings on this thread.

Vegetable oil or SVO (straight vegetable oil) is not biodiesel. Some vehicles can and do run on straight veg oil, either used or virgin oil, but as people have mentioned the vehicle does need to have a conversion, pre heaters fitted etc.

Biodiesel is a fuel that has been made from processed oil, through a process called transesterification. Simply put the oil is filtered, methanol and caustic soda are added and the whole lot is then 're-acted'. the caustic acts as a catalyst, binding the ethanol molecules to the oil and creating biodiesel. The resulting fuel is then 'cleaned' and hey presto! Biodiesel.

Biodiesel is a drop in replacement for mineral diesel and can be used on its own (as I do in my car) or can be blended with mineral diesel in a percentage blend.

The benefits of biodiesel are that it is environmentally friendly, for every 1 litre of biodiesel used, 3KGs of CO2 are consumed during the lifecycle of the fuel. The second benefit is cost, currenly bio offers costs savings of up to 10 pence per litre on fossil diesel, in some cases more.

If anyone would like any further info have a look at Bioenerg - What the world needs now

[kshotton45]

Just before the fuel crisis, I experimented with a tankful of Asdas finest cooking oil. I was due to go on holiday in Scotland and I was determined not to miss it. There is no noticable difference other than the smell.
I've not used any since ( honest !), and I believe the police can confiscate any motor using it.
I wouldn't risk losing the car just to save a few pounds on fuel; but, if there were to be another fuel crisis I would be tempted ................

Keith.

[Paul mabbott]

Something well worth discussing - where does the methanol come from?

Originally Posted by Greenplanet

I thought I would bring this subject backto life as it is very topical at present.

There seem to be a lot of misconceptions regarding Biofuels, several of which are present on the previous postings on this thread.

Vegetable oil or SVO (straight vegetable oil) is not biodiesel. Some vehicles can and do run on straight veg oil, either used or virgin oil, but as people have mentioned the vehicle does need to have a conversion, pre heaters fitted etc.

Biodiesel is a fuel that has been made from processed oil, through a process called transesterification. Simply put the oil is filtered, methanol and caustic soda are added and the whole lot is then 're-acted'. the caustic acts as a catalyst, binding the ethanol molecules to the oil and creating biodiesel. The resulting fuel is then 'cleaned' and hey presto! Biodiesel.

Biodiesel is a drop in replacement for mineral diesel and can be used on its own (as I do in my car) or can be blended with mineral diesel in a percentage blend.

The benefits of biodiesel are that it is environmentally friendly, for every 1 litre of biodiesel used, 3KGs of CO2 are consumed during the lifecycle of the fuel. The second benefit is cost, currenly bio offers costs savings of up to 10 pence per litre on fossil diesel, in some cases more.

If anyone would like any further info have a look at Bioenerg - What the world needs now

[Paul mabbott]

Which 'fuel crisis' was this - they seemed to occur every year or two.
Either way, I'm fascinated by what you did - used cooking oil directly instead of diesel?
There are all sorts of rumours about what the police can do - how are they to know?
The main thing about "biofuel", I think, is that it is approaching carbon neutral - if you can save yourself a quid or too, fine but, in theory, biofuel might also help to save the planet!

Originally Posted by kshotton45

Just before the fuel crisis, I experimented with a tankful of Asdas finest cooking oil. I was due to go on holiday in Scotland and I was determined not to miss it. There is no noticable difference other than the smell.
I've not used any since ( honest !), and I believe the police can confiscate any motor using it.
I wouldn't risk losing the car just to save a few pounds on fuel; but, if there were to be another fuel crisis I would be tempted ................

Keith.