Swedish nuclear reactor failure

[nick_rowe]

I'm still trying to see the benefits of nuclear power (as several people on this site feel it offers the answers we need for energy security and climate change) but then I read this, in october's Ecologist:

"Four of the 10 nuclear reactors in Sweden have been shut down.... "It was pure luck that there wasn't a meltdown" swedish media reported a former director of the reactor saying.."

It was caused by the reactor becoming out of control when backup generators failed to fire during a power cut, meaning the operator lost instrumentation and control over the reactor. The operator then disobeyed orders and managed to divert power from elsewhere in the facility in order regain control and avoid critical temperatures, with 8 minutes to spare. I hope they've given him a few days off and a bonus

At the same time, we hear that Australia is set to start selling uranium to china next year to fuel their planned nuclear expansion with 28 new reactors by 2020. Who's advising them and installing reliable backup systems?

[lewisa]

Originally Posted by nick_rowe

I'm still trying to see the benefits of nuclear power

I shall try to convert you, having waited a suitable amount of time to make the argument more apparant.

Since this thread was posted (approx 35 days ago)...

- the world has consumed 2,940,000,000 barrels of oil (would approx fill Lake Windermere twice).
- the world has burned 600,000,000 tonnes of coal.
- there has been 1000 coal mining deaths
- there has been between 10,000 and 100,000 premature deaths due to coal usage (estimates vary a lot on that one)



Picture a few hundred football field sized nuclear waste dumps, and the very occasional nasty accident or explotion.

Then picture 3 billion barrels of oil, 600 million tonnes of coal and tens of thousands of dead bodies piling up... every 35 days.



Thats my argument for nuclear, Im all ears to argument against or a serious alternative, Ive just not found one as of yet.

[peppermint]

Originally Posted by nick_rowe

I'm still trying to see the benefits of nuclear power (as several people on this site feel it offers the answers we need for energy security and climate change) but then I read this, in october's Ecologist:

I dont think nuclear power is the way forward. I see you read the Ecologist Magazine, what a great mag! They did a massive article on nuclear power i think it was May 06 issue (if not that one , then June 06) They covered every aspect of nuclear power from the mining of uranium to worker safety, emmissions etc. If you can get hold of it, it is a very enlightening read, and i'm sure that not so many people will be for nuclear if they knew the ins and outs of each step of the process.

[onionade]

I agree with peppermint, i dont think nuclear is the answer there are much better options.
The hazard of mining coal was mentioned i dont think the process is any different from mining uranium either plus its already a nightmare situation with regards to how much oil we use but do we really want to be replacing those oil barrel with barrels of toxic waste which we cannot at present dispose of properly (and probably end up in the deep sea somewhere !?).

the alternative options in my eyes are a combination of wind, solar and small scale hydro power coupled with the advent of tidal and wave power generators we should be able to fill the energy gap for the near future, sounds like a bit of a cliche response but i dont know why we are even considering other options like nuclear when we have all of the above (also fuel cells i think will play an important role in the not to distant future).

i think the western world in general has too much money, infrastructure and experience in the oil industry and also with nuclear power and is reluctant to fully implement the above "clean" suggestions at this stage becuase of that, when in fact the renewable technologies are efficient and mature enough to begin seriously adopting now.

do we really want to increase the risk of a nuclear disaster in the uk ? as small and over populated as it is?

[speckled wood]

Originally Posted by onionade

i think the western world in general has too much money,

Ultimately this is the answer we need not go further, until we have faced up to the simple question of how much energy we really need to enjoy a comfortable life then we are not even part of the way to meeting our real needs, a real concern with nuclear is that to many people it seems to offer something for nothing or something with acceptable risks and of course with this perception we will still be stuck in the rut of ever increasing energy use. Truthfully though we need to first face up to whether we should be continuing on this never ending spiral of increasing energy use and look at what we really need. In truth we could manage quite happily and comfortably with far less energy than we now use.

[peppermint]

yes i fully agree speckled wood. We have way to many appliences and creature comforts that need electricity/power of some sort, that we could easily do without. I lived in a flat in Bristol with Onionade for a few years, then lived in a caravan for a year (the type you tow on the back of the car), and we realised how much water (hot and cold) we used before was so much. In the caravan we had to go collect it from the tap in the aqua roll so you really notice. Also we didn't have a lot of our possesions with us as space was limited, so we only had what we felt we needed and left so many energy consuming products behind. It just goes to show that we dont need as much as we think.

I think that all new homes built should have their own mini wind turbine to provide some of the energy needed for that particular home.

[onionade]

well said speckled wood

[Paul mabbott]

Or solar panel ...
Yes, most people don't appreciate how much water they use.... nor the energy taken in cleaning and distributing it.
My sister had an eye-opener a few years back when she went to Kenya on one of those swish holidays. She saw the local workers at the hotels and whatever carrying buckets of water (their whole days usage for drinking, cleaning and cooking) in the heat over several miles while the tourists had unlimited water supply in their hotels .... She refused to shower for a fortnight. I don't know what her husband thought of it but I thought that was very conscientous. And I don't think she'll be going on that sort of destructive holiday again.

Originally Posted by peppermint

yes i fully agree speckled wood. We have way to many appliences and creature comforts that need electricity/power of some sort, that we could easily do without. I lived in a flat in Bristol with Onionade for a few years, then lived in a caravan for a year (the type you tow on the back of the car), and we realised how much water (hot and cold) we used before was so much. In the caravan we had to go collect it from the tap in the aqua roll so you really notice. Also we didn't have a lot of our possesions with us as space was limited, so we only had what we felt we needed and left so many energy consuming products behind. It just goes to show that we dont need as much as we think.

I think that all new homes built should have their own mini wind turbine to provide some of the energy needed for that particular home.

[onionade]

in north america i was shocked as to how much water people use here, pretty much everyone have their hose pipes on 24/7 with sprinklers on their gardens in an attempt to keep their gardens a lush green, every farmer was doing the same on a huge scale to entire fields and the toilets are much larger than that in the uk so everytime they are flushed thats about 3-4 times much more water used.

despite warnings of fresh water lakes depleting rapidly and almost all (clean) sources of water are running dry they still dont care and worse still everyone's home is unmetered so they just carry on using to their hearts content.

[speckled wood]

When I moved into my present house 20 years ago it lacked hot water and for a few weeks I managed to shower daily using an adapted 2 litre "killer" spray filled with hot water from the kettle mixed with cold water from the tap. I actually managed quite well and got no comments concerning personal hygene in that time, and every bit as important I also felt clean, truthfully it was perfectly adequate and of course many caravaners and boaters use them.