HHO Gas Cars

[richnfamous]

Originally Posted by Meta menardi

Next, how to pick yourself up whilst standing in a bucket.

Now that would be a neat trick.

Besides, most people are unaware of the dangerous chemical Dihydrogen Monoxide: Dihydrogen Monoxide Research Division - dihydrogen monoxide info

Take care, it's a big world out there

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by Dave5xe

I will have to stay with the read out from the MOT stations gas analyser. It shows a large drop in the pollutants but to be truthful it also shows a small increase in the CO2

Now there _is_ a bit of science in the above. If you're running a diesel that normally produces unburnt carbon in the form of particulates in the exhaust, and you then burn the particulates by some means, you'd expect the CO2 to go up.

Jim

[Doggle Avaddit]

Well I've been doing a bit of Googling today, and have to admit I should have done this before spouting off at David. I apologise unreservedly, David.


So it turns out that adding a small amount of Hydrogen to the engine does MORE that just add another fuel into the engine, it actually alters the efficiency of the engine, and the pollutant output, allegedly for the better.
It might well be that the energy required to make the Hydrogen is more than paid for by a more efficient overall package.

It is difficult to find any trustworthy data on what this really means, since most claims are from people selling kits, and various other people with vested interests in skewing the results. There are lots of claims of 50% to 60% better mpg, one manufacturer I found actually quoted from just 10% upwards.

Reports from people who have fitted these various devices cannot be validated either, since, IMHO, they may now to be doing all they can to maximise their fuel economy with a drastic change in driving style - perhaps somewhat of a self fulfilling prophesy. Particularly if they need to justify spending all that money.

You would need to see some properly conducted independent tests before making any sort of global % claim of greater mpg, likewise for any change in pollutant emissions. Internet Heresay just doesn't do it for me.

(I'm wondering what effect the hydrogen has on the cars' ECU and various sensors it uses to measure Oxygen content in the exhaust, temperatures, airflow etc etc in order to calculate the amount of fuel to inject, and thus keep emissions as low as possible).


Interestingly, this technology could be far more useful if incorporated into new types of engines designed to properly exploit it. This involves using higher compression ratios, different turbochargers etc. Whether this will ever become part of the future remains to be seen. A better petrol engine is ultimately not really going to save the world.

[Dave5xe]

Thanks Jim, I truly value all your input,
The bottom line is that this easy to build and cheap to run HHo system may improve the quality of the air for all of us and that is what Wild About Britain is all about. If it also can be made to save us fuel, well thats just a bonus,
Kind regards,
David

[Dave5xe]

Thanks Doggle Avaddit, you have made me blush,
Kind regards,
David

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by Doggle Avaddit

Well I've been doing a bit of Googling today, and have to admit I should have done this before spouting off at David. I apologise unreservedly

Don't encourage him 'Doggle', you'll only make him worse!
;^)

I'm just waiting for 'Number 9 Spider' to chip in with his mate that's invented a car that runs on just water!

Jim

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Dave5xe

Thanks Jim, I truly value all your input,
The bottom line is that this easy to build and cheap to run HHo system may improve the quality of the air for all of us and that is what Wild About Britain is all about. If it also can be made to save us fuel, well thats just a bonus,
Kind regards,
David

no - the bottom line is that it would be impossible to build any kind of HHO system because HHO doesnt exist and hydrogen cannot be bonded in series as each H atom makes only one bond.

the only way two H atoms and one O atom can be bonded is as H20 - ie water

[Dave5xe]

Thanks eeyore, If as you say, Browns gas or HHO do not exist then it is time for me to exit this debate, thanks for your input,
Kind regards,
David

[Doggle Avaddit]

Aw, don't take your ball home.


Tell you what, Google 6 stroke engines, there is more than one type. Basically strokes 5 and 6 inject water onto the hot piston, creating steam which produces another power stroke for free. Whats more, the water keeps the engine cool, so you don't need a cooling system at all. Essentially you're recovering a large part of the energy usually lost as heat. Which is a lot.
There are less pumps and fans involved which also sap lots of power, and consequently less weight to carry, though you do need to carry about as much water as petrol.

Of course there are lots of technical problems to overcome, and actually this is quite an old technology. But, if you were to have an HHO system as well, who knows what you could achieve.

[Dave5xe]

Thanks Doogle, If it were about cars I would study the Sterling engine, but it is about breathing clean air (Wild About Britain ).
Anyway you can borrow my ball anytime you like as long as you look after it,
Regards,
David

Ps. I have now shifted my attention to the Global warming thread, see you there!