Light bulbs banned

[Garden Carpet]

I have just caught up with this thread. I have been using longlife bulbs for some time now and now have no problems with instant lighting. I did with earlier types but have changed them for newer ones with no pause. I have them in two sizes and find the small ones are small enough not to show.... I also changed my light shades to accommodate the new bulbs. My thinking there was that I would save more by changing bulbs than I needed to spend on the shades. I have shades in this room which are shallower than the depth of the larger bulbs but dont find it to be a problem.. in fact it rather enhances the simple flower shape of the shades

To the question of timers. I had a timer fitted to my night storage heating system between the fuse box for the system and the main fuse box (my heaters didnt come with timers unfortunatly) I find this works well and wondered if such a thing would work for security lights?

jaki

[elleme]

Originally Posted by Gaina

I do a lot of Art and Crafts and I need to work with Daylight Bulbs so I don't know how they are going to cater for those people (and the people wth S.A.D - has anyone thought about how light affects them?).

As it happens I was diagnosed with SAD a number of years back and because of that I have a lightbox. They don't use incandescent bulbs, they use flourescents which you can buy in full spectrum if you want, but they're no more effective for light therapy. My lightbox uses a total of 75w for three tubes and that puts out 10000 lux. Some lightboxes are coming out now which are made from LEDs. So, no, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I first tried low energy bulbs about 8-9 years ago and was very unimpressed, not going back to them for several years. They've improved a lot since then. I don't find they take ages to switch on, with most it's instantaneous. I don't get flicker. Most of the bulbs in my house now are low energy and I don't find them any hassle. That said I'm not very happy about them containing mercury and being hard to recycle because of it.

[elleme]

Originally Posted by asheleaf

Anyway, back to the reason for this post, could those with experience of these bulbs let me know which brands are best and which to avoid? I dont want to end up buying the ones that only last as long as a regular bulb.

Which magazine have tested them, as I've got temporary membership to their site at present I'll look it up for you. Hang on...

Their best buys were based on not taking too long to come on, good performance over time and withstanding frequent on/off switching. They were...

General Electric Electronic T3, price £3
IKEA Sparsam bulb price £2
Osram Duluxstar price £3
General Electric Mini Eco price £3
IKEA Sparsam tube price £3

Most of the bulbs in my house are the tube type from Ikea because I live near a branch, so that may be why I've generally found them fine over the last few years. It makes a change from the quality (or lack of it) of their furniture then!) I can't recall replacing a bulb yet, though most of them I've had 3 years or less.

[elleme]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

How I hate those external 'security' lights - we have fairly small front gardens in our street and, as I walk up the street at midnight, I get flashed at passing every other house! It wouldn't be so bad if they served any purpose .. we have street lights after all! Another example of people being flogged a dead horse by salesmen ...

I know what you mean about them being annoying when they come on, and in front gardens they seem a little superfluous especially in a well-lit street. However I have one in my back garden, which was there when I moved in. I've caught a guy sneaking across my garden before, when the lights came on and I had my usual cursory look out of the window, expecting it to be a cat or something. Instead it was a guy sneaking across the lawn. He'd climbed a 6ft6 wall, which wasn't a shortcut to anywhere apart from my back door and those of my neighbours. If it hadn't been for the light and my shouting out of the window at him, he'd have got a lot further without interruption.

Although that was the first time that happened to me, it's not the first time it's happened to neighbours. I live in an area with a high burglary rate unfortunately. I think that solar-powered security lights are now available, but before replacing mine I would want like to find out whether they are going to work properly, even after days as dull as today...

[Dogwood]

Originally Posted by Rich_

So even the low energy light bulb could turn out to be yet another eco' con, but if it costs 7 times more it must be more environment friendly!

The thing is, whatever you buy has to be manufactured, from a cars to light bulbs, and when someone takes these processes into account, many products will not be what they seem.
Concern for the planet is becoming a bandwagon ridden by people with something to gain from it & the experts have now convinced enough people that we as individuals can save the world, but unless we stop buying things I can't see how.If the experts are wrong, which they might be, it is all a waste of time any way. The experts told us the computers would all crash at midnight at the turn of the millenium & the world would descend into chaos remember.

I've resisted changing to low-energy light bulbs until recently because of the reasons given above the main one being the larger size. Of the 16 light bulbs in my house, 11 are in enclosed fittings and 2 of the others have shades that fit close to the sides of the bulb giving little scope for fitting larger bulbs. It didn't seem cost affective to change, even with the lower energy use, when it ment changing the fittings as well. My changing wouldn't help prevent global warming as I use green electricity.

Walking around my local Wickes DIY store recently I noticed that their low-energy bulbs were smaller than I had seen before, so I bought my first one. It is 18w (100w equivalent), cost 99p, is 15 mm longer than a traditional bulb, but 5 mm thiner and will, I think fit in all but 2 of my light fittings. It may fit in those as well but I will need to fit the bulb and then see if I can get the covers on to find out. When switched on it comes on at ½ power and brightens to full power in 30 seconds. This I think gives me no excuse not to change and intend to change all my bulbs to low-energy as the present bulbs burn out.

[PMG]

Second time lucky - I have tried a different brand - its a little squat curly shaped bulb also from Asda - rated at 20 (100watt) which does come on instantly and is much brighter, much faster - its a smidgin less bright than the ordinary old bulb - but I'm nitpickin! This one I do find an acceptible replacement for the spotlamp on my desk.

What I am going to do with the rest of the house light fittings I've no idea - the folks before us put what I call fancy fittings up - enclosed glass dome things flush to the ceiling that house little shaped bulbs and I can see us having to alter the whole of the house lighting to accommodate energy saving bulbs ....... that or buy a huge stock of tiny bulbs ............

Pauline

[nightshade]

I have replaced lamps with the longlife energy saving types they are slow the quality control is not to good and many expire shortly after purchase these are of course replaced under warrantry (household name manufacturers)
I use an eco friendly lamp in my moth trap as well but there will still be a call for specialist lamps

[thes3raph1m]

Originally Posted by pressld2

Slow start up is just one issue of many with the current low energy bulb technology. While I'm all in favour of saving energy in any way possible, low energy light bulbs are emphatically NOT yet a replacement for traditional bulbs.

They don't work with dimmer switches, they don't work with timer switches (so my external security lights can't use them), they are dangerous to use with power tools because they flicker and can make a moving saw blade or drill bit look stationary and, above all, they are still too big! They come with all the standard fittings, bayonet, ES, SES etc., but the actual bulbs are about 50% bigger than traditional ones. This means that they don't physically fit in many of the light fittings in my house. How green will I be if I have to throw away perfectly good light fittings and replace them with new ones just so that I can get bulbs to fit? And as for LED bulbs to replace halogens, well I tried that (at considerable cost) in my son's bedroom but when I turned them on they actually made the room look darker!

As I said, I'm very much in favour of saving energy and already use low energy bulbs wherever possible. But for at least seventy percent of my household lights it's still not possible with current bulb technology.

Dave P.

hmmm... ok go to poundland and get some of their bulbs... i use them all over my house.. they have some that are smaller than traditional bulbs (similar size to candle bulbs) start up almost immediately and as to power tools... well if your gonna use a power tool, might as well use the full power lightbulb anyway... saftey before saving energy...

as to not working with dimmer switches... they will soon, and who uses a dimmer switch with 100watt or more bulbs? ive got a lamp that has a dimmer in, when set to dim it flickers at such a rate it gives me a headache and i can visibly see the flicker...

and anyway ive just thought power tools at night? you deserve to have your hands cut anyway for making all that blooming noise... plus... if you cant tell if the blade is stationary or not... then assume its not...

not hard...

[svenrufus]

Thought I'd posted this already, but doesn't seem to have shown up. apologies if a duplicate comes up later.

Anyway, what I was saying is how surprising I find it that people state these bulbs have a short life span. I am still using the bulbs I bought in 1999 - the year I bought a house in Nottingham. I have owned these bulbs for longer than I owned the house.

I was also surprised to see how little people are paying for their bulbs, in the pence! I paid between £6-8 for the ones I bought 8 years ago, wuite an outlay at the time, but they were good brands (Osram and Philips, best buy table toppers back then). I had assumed that the lower prices were due to economies of scale now more people are buying them, or whether the technology has just got cheaper.

But thinking a bit more about it, I wonder if the problem with longevity is related to the price you pay. Maybe a small amount of additional outlay upfront will pay dividends in the additional quality you see - the old 'if-you-pay-peanuts-you-get-monkeys' scenario - or in this case, maybe ou get turkeys.

Also when I got the bulbs so long ago, they were instant to react, so that needn't have been an issue even in the primitive days of the market. Now they are in their dotage, they are a bit slower, especially the one in the bathroom, but still only take a few seconds to really get going.

[asheleaf]

Originally Posted by elleme

Which magazine have tested them, as I've got temporary membership to their site at present I'll look it up for you. Hang on...

Their best buys were based on not taking too long to come on, good performance over time and withstanding frequent on/off switching. They were...

General Electric Electronic T3, price £3
IKEA Sparsam bulb price £2
Osram Duluxstar price £3
General Electric Mini Eco price £3
IKEA Sparsam tube price £3

Most of the bulbs in my house are the tube type from Ikea because I live near a branch, so that may be why I've generally found them fine over the last few years. It makes a change from the quality (or lack of it) of their furniture then!) I can't recall replacing a bulb yet, though most of them I've had 3 years or less.

thank you for going to all that trouble elleme. Its been very helpful. i shall make a note of the brands and try and hunt them down.

much appreciated, Ashe

[Rich_]

What kind of timers do these light bulbs not work with? I noticed on the packet of some I bought that it said not suitable for timers, but I have used them with the type you plug into the wall to switch your lamps on & they seem OK.

[pressld2]

Yep, running a lamp through a plug-in timer should be fine as these types of timer are completely independant of the appliance plugged into them. The problem is with timers built into a normal light switch. These work by putting a tiny micro-current over the whole circuit, including the bulb, to run the clock in the timer. But compact fluorescents don't allow this micro current to pass as there's no filament.

Dave P.

[G0NYM]

I have read through all the posts on this thread and can find no mention of clear bulbs all the energy saving bulbs that I can find look like miniature fluorescents is this the case,I would love to change to more efficient lighting
All my fittings have clear bulbs in and don't look right with those large bulky
bulbs in . I don't, think they will fit inside the shades anyway has any body got any ideas ....
Martin

[numeniusaqua]

I think another issue is that we have progessively had brighter and brighter interiors over recent years and have become used to that.
If you are over 30 and think back, not that many years ago most people had a centre light fitting with a 60w bulb in it! If you were to try that now your room seems very dinghy indeed. It's a bit like heating - I've noticed if I go into friends houses on mains gas, some of them are stiflingly hot to me, but comfortable for them.
This is why the necessary adjustments are going to hit all of us so hard when there becomes no option but to change our lifestyles I think - basically we've become soft.
A while ago our streetlights went out (we only have 4 where I live anyway) and it was lovely to see a proper starry sky - they could have left them off for me. Who needs them at 2a.m onwards anyway? I often work nights and it's perfectly easy to get into my house without having to have streetlights, yet they burn every night of the year when 90% of the population are in bed anyway! Apart from maybe some junctions and the like, I think over 99% of the streetlights are uneccessary after midnight - but I reckon if they said they would turn them off there would be a flurry of law suits from people falling over & blaming thier councils for not lighting the entire world up at night.... and the way we have become as a society, the courts would back that up!

[Paul mabbott]

Yes, the low-energy bulbs are in fact very compressed fluorescent tubes - just ones which can be used in conventional sockets. There are quite a few different patterns about now although, as you say, it is difficult to get ones to fit some types of lampshade - particularly the upside-down cone pattern. One thing to remember is that with low-energy bulbs you usually get as much light from a 60W bulb as from a 100W tungsten.

Which leads me to a question I've asked before and received contradictory answers on - I'm not great with electrics! I was told in my youth that while 'fluorescent' tube lighting was far more energy-efficient than tungsten bulbs this only applied over periods of one hour or more usage because the tubes used up a lot of energy in the first seconds of use, initially heating up the electrodes. One figure that stuck in my mind was that turning on a strip light used as much energy as one hour's use of a conventional bulb - therefore it was cheaper (money and energy-wise) to leave a tubular light on for an hour than to turn it off and on for lesser periods?

In querying this I've been told, "Rubbish!" and "Of course ....".

Any physicists or electricians out there to get me out of my dilemma? The reason, of course, is that the same logic would apply to low-energy bulbs.

Originally Posted by G0NYM

I have read through all the posts on this thread and can find no mention of clear bulbs all the energy saving bulbs that I can find look like miniature fluorescents is this the case,I would love to change to more efficient lighting
All my fittings have clear bulbs in and don't look right with those large bulky
bulbs in . I don't, think they will fit inside the shades anyway has any body got any ideas ....
Martin

[Rich_]

My Dad always said that about florescent tubes, whether it's right or not I don't know? A lot of people had the Circular ones in the living room in the 70's.

We have a strip light in the kitchen, & one in garage which had a tube which lasted over 20 years. I noticed when buying a replacement tube for it, they now describe them as "low energy" lighting.

[Paul mabbott]

Yes, they always were the 'low energy' option but required people to re-lay their wiring. The newer 'low-energy' bulbs have just extended the technology to standard light sockets.

All of these tubes &c that I have seen are guaranteed for 10 years - but who keeps the receipts or records?

Originally Posted by Rich_

My Dad always said that about florescent tubes, whether it's right or not I don't know? A lot of people had the Circular ones in the living room in the 70's.

We have a strip light in the kitchen, & one in garage which had a tube which lasted over 20 years. I noticed when buying a replacement tube for it, they now describe them as "low energy" lighting.

[numeniusaqua]

I remember this idea - as a result you saw buildngs lit up all night I remember. There was a guy on TV a while ago, (can't recall who he was) saying that whole idea was an urban myth based around the fact the tubes needed a big charge to get them going, but this was a millisecond long and was generated by the capacitor in the starter anyway which simply builds up the charge over a second or so then releases it. Thinking about it, since lighting circuits are fused at 6amp, they can't draw any more than that and it would have to be considerably less actually, given that there will be lots of lights on the same circuit. So maybe it was an urban myth. I know an electrician - I'll ask him next time I see him what they actually draw at the start.

[forfi]

I'm finding that the long life claims are a slight porkie. I have started to write the date of installation on them as three years seems to be the best yet.Also they dim rapidly. They don't like to be switched on and off frequently.I'm going to stock up on incandescent before I go broke paying out for rubbish.When myself and some Engineer friends set up the Irish Energy managers Assoc. in the early 80's we were constantly bombarded with gimmicks,none as effective as the bloomin on/off switch

[crispy]

i have heard that sky box's and other other digital tv devices download and send information to their vendors, they also say that these are required firmware updates but they are probably more like a daily rundown on your viewing habits.

i think your right by switching it off at the wall socket, not only for your electricity consumption but for your privacy.

[ollyk]

I have converted to CF lamps nearly throughout the house. No issue with startup BUT lifespan is quite poor and they are all philips / GE. I wonder what effect this has on there value as an environmentally friendly alternative to traditional lighting?
Only Daughters room and bathroom have Tungsten lamps due to clever dimmer / timer switches. Of course with phase controlled dimmers if lamp is half dimmed you use approximately -actually slightly more than- half power so there are still energy savings possible.

What bothers me are the narrow beamed mini halogen down lighters people decorate their homes with. This must be one of the least efficient and most expensive ways of lighting up your home (I use to see rooms with 6+ 50 Watt lamps times X rooms!!!), but as they are more efficient than Tungsten bulbs they appear to be overlooked?
My single 40W fluorescent tube produces far more usable light than 4 carefully positioned 50W halogens so in my opinion these fashion statements should be the first of the lamp types to be banned!

[ollyk]

Originally Posted by pressld2

Yep, running a lamp through a plug-in timer should be fine as these types of timer are completely independant of the appliance plugged into them. The problem is with timers built into a normal light switch. These work by putting a tiny micro-current over the whole circuit, including the bulb, to run the clock in the timer. But compact fluorescents don't allow this micro current to pass as there's no filament.

Dave P.

You could* add a resistor parallel with the CF lamp but it would have to be correctly rated e.g. 5mA = 48k resistor but it would dissipate 1.2watts.
Personally I would only ever have my garden lights on PIR and would re-route / change wiring to accommodate this!


I hope you know not to follow my advice as it is hypothetical and if you do not know what you are doing then could be lethal!