Wind turbines

[pressld2]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

As far as solar power goes, I really can't see that having any significant impact in GB for decades to come, our climate just does not lend itself to solar power (given present day efficiencies of that technology).

I don't think it's the technology that's holding Solar back, I think it's the cost. If I covered my roof with photo-voltaic panels at today's state of the art I could generate three to four time the amount of electricity my house uses. Yes there are still issues such as the fact that maximum generation in the summer coincides with minimum demand and vice-versa. And I'm down here in balmy kent - it's a different story if you live in Aberdeen! But given that the highest population densities are in the south I still think that 50% or more of Britain's electricity needs could be met from solar power using currrent technology.

Trouble is it would cost me over £60,000 to cover my roof with photo-voltaic panels. Even just enough to meet my own energy needs without putting anything back into the grid would cost over £20,000. What's needed here is mass production which would see the costs drop by an order of magnitude but we're currently stuck in a vicious circle where high cost means low demand and low demand means high cost.

All a bit off-topic - sorry!

Dave P.

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by pressld2

...I don't think it's the technology that's holding Solar back, I think it's the cost...

I think it's as much one as the other. The initial costs don't justify the outlay, given the expected payback period and likely lifespan of the equipment. I have to admit I'm not fully up to speed with solar power, but understand that it is heavily dependant upon "battery storage" so that the power can be available when wanted rather than when generated (use of dc/ac inverter technology just to complicate things even further).

I am aware that recent developments include a roof-tile lookalike photovoltaic unit which could be used for whole roof situations, instead of normal slates or tiles.

Yes, if substantial increases in production were enabled, costs would come down, bringing the "outlay/payback point" which would encourage wider use that much nearer.

Regards
Mike.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

but understand that it is heavily dependant upon "battery storage" so that the power can be available when wanted rather than when generated (use of dc/ac inverter technology just to complicate things even further).

.

I think the normal procedure is to have a National Grid hook up and sell power to the grid when you are generating more than you need and to buy it when you arent. This requires a special meter which basically runs both ways.

alternatively a lot of green builds (like for example the bedzed) have some of the PVC s dedicated to powering other technology such as heat pumps etc.

[Lancashire Lad]

For clarity, if I may be allowed to revisit a couple of comments in my posts of yesterday: -

Firstly: -
Typo alert - I was referring to the effects of salt water corrosion on offshore wind turbines, but typed "erosion" in error.

And, being a diver, I am all too familiar with the fragile balance of the sublittoral ecosystem. Therefore, any willingness to accept offshore wind farms as being environmentally friendly, should not be to the detriment of that ecosystem - part of the very environment which we are trying to be friendly to.

Secondly: -
My reservations on solar power's current efficiency status includes the fact that it is somewhat impractical to introduce such technology on exisiting buildings. (particularly individual dwellings). I suspect that the majority of house holders would not be willing/able to justify the expense involved, even with the benefit of cost reductions that mass production might bring.

However, if solar technology, (along with improved insulation etc. etc.), were to be routinely incorporated into new builds, both domestic and industrial, then, given time, it would undoubtedly be of great benefit, and very environmentally friendly. But, I still suspect it will be several decades before we see it being a major contributor.

Regards
Mike.

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by eeyore

....I think the normal procedure is to have a National Grid hook up and sell power to the grid when you are generating more than you need and to buy it when you arent. This requires a special meter which basically runs both ways....

Yes, I agree this type of arrangement is available, but even here, things are not quite so clear cut.

Certainly in domestic situations, I would suspect that your average houshold's main use of electricity would be during evenings, and solar power systems operating on buy/sell agreement would be generating excess electricity during the day, with requirement for buy-back during evening/night.

From what I've found on the net, it would appear that payment for excess is in the region of 6p per kW, whereas cost to buy per kW is more like two or three times that amount. The only site that I've been able to find actual figures on suggests that excess electricity per annum. (for an average house) would get you a payment/offset of about £60 from your supplier.

Therefore, in order not to be buying back what you need, it would make more sense to store any excess, (for use when you need it), rather than sell it - which is where the battery/inverter equipment comes in.

The same website also says that average payback period for a domestic solar power sysytem, taking into account all of the necessary factors, is in excess of 100 years.

Again, I'm not knocking the the technology, just trying to present a balanced view of the actual benefits. I do believe that solar energy will become a major player in due course.

Regards
Mike.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

1)Therefore, in order not to be buying back what you need, it would make more sense to store any excess, (for use when you need it), rather than sell it - which is where the battery/inverter equipment comes in.

2) The same website also says that average payback period for a domestic solar power sysytem, taking into account all of the necessary factors, is in excess of 100 years.

re 1) I agree - but this is not a problem with the equipment but with the inequity of the buy/sell price - It is reasonable to expect the electricity companies to0 have some differential as they have to maintain the grid , make a profit etc - however the differential is unacceptably high - probably because not many people are selling back to the grid - if this became a mainstream activity consumer pressure would force the companies to close the differential.

re 2) That may be so at todays energy prices but once peak oil is reached (which may be as early as 2013) we can expect energy prices to rocket, which would dramatically shorten the payback period

[ChrisJB]

Originally Posted by Jim Ford

Or cutting the peat!

Jim

Not on my moors anyway.

Regards, Chris

[Tally]

I wonder if anyone can help. A few years ago I went on a sponsored ride with my horse to a large estate not too far from Hampshire. Part of the ride went through a veritable forest of wind turbines, well it seemed like it at the time and I am prone to exaggeration, we rode through them and the sound of them has stayed with me. I think the estate or the area began with F. Bit sketchy I know but if anyone knows of this place, please please let me know

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by Tally

I wonder if anyone can help.....Part of the ride went through a veritable forest of wind turbines....

I'm not familiar with that area, but you might be able to find what you need by using Live search Maps or Google Earth or similar, which would show these turbines when you are sufficiently zoomed in.

You would then be able to get the name of the area from OS "Get a map" or similar mapping site.

Regards
Mike.

[John D]

This is worth reading and is very much a realistic view on the use of WIND TURBINES

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Scientists switch on power probe

John D