Undentified Larvae (Ladybirds?)

[ChasMacey]

Hi,

I have uploaded 4 photo's of two different larvae that I think are Ladybird larvae (but I could just as easily be wrong!) can anyone tell me which ones they are ? the first one the pictures were taken 2nd July 2006 in my Garden






and the second two pictures were taken about 1st June 2007 also in my garden in Surrey.





One further question regarding ladybird pupa, are they distinct enough to be able to identify the species ? as I have a couple of photos of what I believe are Ladybird pupa that are distinct from each other in their markings but not sure whether to post a request for Id or whether I would be wasting peoples time ?


Regards Chas

[Paul mabbott]

We've been having debates about larval identification and I'm sure puddig4brains will be able to help. Most keys for ladybird larvae are for the final instar - patterns &c vary with the different larval stages.
I wouldn't like to sound too confident but think that the first two (without much pattern and with short legs) are the 16-spot ladybird Tytthapis (Micraspis) sedecimpunctata. The second one, I think, is an early stage of the cream-spot ladybird Calvia quattuordecimguttata but it may be an Adalia sp ......

[Dogghound]

1. Tytthapis sedecimpunctata 2-3 Instar probrably 3rd, not its final moult. But quite bland compared to most larva.

2. Calvia quattuordecimguttata 2-3 instar again. Quite distinctive from both Adalia sp, due to the white spines, which are more prominant in its final instar.

Ladybird larva pass through four stages (instars).

[ChasMacey]

Paul and Dogghound,

Thank you both, any advice on the last question are the ladybird pupa distinct enough to identify to the species ?

Thanks again,

Regards Chas

[Dogghound]

Yes post them, they can be quite distinctive, and in many cases can be identified to species level. Although they tend to show quite a variation in colour from greys, to blacks. Worth posting them though .

[Paul mabbott]

Sorry, hadn't noticed that bit - yes, some are very distinctive, most are worth having a look at!

Originally Posted by ChasMacey

......., any advice on the last question are the ladybird pupa distinct enough to identify to the species ?

Thanks again,

Regards Chas

[ChasMacey]

Thanks

I will get onto it now, and will start a new thread when done.


Thanks again both


Regards Chas

[Pudding4brains]

Hi All,

Well, Paul was right that I've been trying to learn something about ladybird larvae, but I'm also "still learning"

Originally Posted by Dogghound

1. Tytthapis sedecimpunctata 2-3 Instar probrably 3rd, not its final moult. But quite bland compared to most larva.

Interesting stuff - not many good images of Tyt.sed. larvae around. From what I've seen/learned sofar I would myself probably guess Tyt.sed. to be the best bet too, but what exactly makes you guys (Paul & Dogghound) sure it's Tyt.sed. and not some other bland early instar of say some Coccidula or maybe even Anisosticta novemdecimpunctata or so? What are the distinguishing characters here? I can't quite see the lower side brushes on meso/metathorax ...

Btw, I've never found Tyt.sed. larvae myself yet - always figured I should look for them in grasslands or so. Is the plant under this one a usual habitat for these larvae (or did Chas move them onto a "better background" for taking the shots?)

Also @Chas: How long was this larva anyway?

Originally Posted by Dogghound

2. Calvia quattuordecimguttata 2-3 instar again.

I'm thinking/guessing it must be more like 1-2 instar - I was very irritated for a moment there by the lack of clear white brush/thorn on Ab1 outside (and Ab5+ outside) to the point that I started doubting Cal.qua for a second. Seen those quite distinctly on I3 and even I2 larva, but have never found eggs or I1 larva to compare, so I'm guessing mostly very early I2? Any of you guys have (links to) good comparison shots for I1 and I2 stages? And again @Chas: How long was this larva?

Nice to see more ladybird larvae images and knowledge gathering on the Web
Cheers!
Arp

[ChasMacey]

Hi Arp,

Thanks for the additional info, and in answer to some of your questions
No I didn't move the larvae I nearly always picture them in thier "natural" environment, only move them when I know I need a shot of something particular to identify them.


Size I don't know but will check to see if I made any records this evening when I get home (but knowing me I doubt it - I still need to be more disiplined in this and not get so engrossed in the camera) , and exactly what plant it is on I'm not sure and will see what I can determine, again this evening.


Regards Chas

[ChasMacey]

Hi,

I believe the plant is foxglove, I have a lot of these in the garden so can't say whether they are in a grassy area or not I'm afraid.


Regards Chas