Cameron lobbying for Tar Sands oil

[Sneezewort]

I can't say I was particularly surprised to read that David Cameron is secretly assisting Shell and BP by lobbying against European plans to penalise the use of tar sands oil. "The Greenest Government Ever" sham has been well exposed over the past 18 months or so.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ing?intcmp=239

Britain's promotion of Canada's tar sands oil is idiotic | Environment | guardian.co.uk

The Petition Site now has a petition - "Tell Cameron to stop lobbying for Tar Sands!"

This is the link:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...?z00m=20150674

[Sigrunn]

Let’s be honest here, Tories have never and will never put anything before the funding of their party. Tar sands being one and recently Cameron vetoed the EU treaty on reforming the banking system and Robin Hood tax.

His position was to protect the British banking system, of which 50% of the Tories party funding comes. “All in this together” my rear end.

The problem with politics, it’s full of corruption.

[Manders]

Long term the world needs oil from tar sands, period. Unless you want to go back to the horse and cart & 25 year life spans.

[Sigrunn]

Originally Posted by Manders

Long term the world needs oil from tar sands, period. Unless you want to go back to the horse and cart & 25 year life spans.

Ahhh the dogma scaremongering tactic never fails to amaze me. It's good to see your keeping an open mind and looking to dicuss a topic instead of just throwing mud and hoping some of it will stick. Oh hang on..........

Fact is, humans are junkies and oil is our heroine. We are using oil at a rate that is not sustainable. Hence the constant increase in price and the oil companies desperation to get passed safety legislation by supporting certain politicians.

As for oil significantly increasing human life expectancy, that really is idiotic and a red herring. You should hang your head in shame. Oil has not dramatically increased our life expectancy, medical research and improved life style is responsible for this. Oil has played a minimal part in this.

[Manders]

Do you really believe that without the economic wealth produced by cheap, plentifull energy, any real scientific progress would have been made? The industrialised nations economies are based on cheap energy. How much medical research has come out of borneo or papua new guinea recently?

How do you think our economy would survive with no cheap fuel, what is your solution? Horse and cart?

Renewables consume land, destroy ecosytems, and put the price of food up. There are companies all over the world buying agricultural land to produce energy crops, land that could otherwise have produced food.

Any use of oil is unsustainable as its never replaced, so what is your point?

Your red herring point is ludicrous in the extreme, our modern lifestyle in every aspect is based on cheap hydrocarbons, from the food you eat, to clothes you wear the television you watch, the computer you used to type your ill-informed nonsense and the medicine you take when you get ill. Otherwise all of these things would only be available to an extreme upper elite who could afford to pay for it.

[Sigrunn]

Originally Posted by Manders

Do you really believe that without the economic wealth produced by cheap, plentifull energy, any real scientific progress would have been made? The industrialised nations economies are based on cheap energy. How much medical research has come out of borneo or papua new guinea recently?

How do you think our economy would survive with no cheap fuel, what is your solution? Horse and cart?

Renewables consume land, destroy ecosytems, and put the price of food up. There are companies all over the world buying agricultural land to produce energy crops, land that could otherwise have produced food.

Any use of oil is unsustainable as its never replaced, so what is your point?

Your red herring point is ludicrous in the extreme, our modern lifestyle in every aspect is based on cheap hydrocarbons, from the food you eat, to clothes you wear the television you watch, the computer you used to type your ill-informed nonsense and the medicine you take when you get ill. Otherwise all of these things would only be available to an extreme upper elite who could afford to pay for it.

So now you want to claim oil has paid for everything? Now your making it up as you go. Roughly £40 billion a year is raised through taxation from oil, that is roughly 8% of the British income. I imagine that money has been put to good use, however is a very small amount of money in terms of the overall costs of medial research and so forth.

Your rhetoric of we will go to horse and cart if we loose oil is laughable at best. Do hydro and electric cars ring any bells? I expect that more alternative will be seen in the future. I agree their technology is still new and has a long way to go, however, those who are pragmatic do as they always do, look for ways to resolve a problem or offer an alternative.

Your view of just keep doing what we do is not only dangerous but a bit silly. The human race has always moved forward, it would seem some people just don't like change though.

What was that you claimed about red herring, when you throw reneables into a discussion on oil production. More mud slinging I see.

[Manders]

Originally Posted by Sigrunn

So now you want to claim oil has paid for everything? Now your making it up as you go. Roughly £40 billion a year is raised through taxation from oil, that is roughly 8% of the British income. I imagine that money has been put to good use, however is a very small amount of money in terms of the overall costs of medial research and so forth.

Your rhetoric of we will go to horse and cart if we loose oil is laughable at best. Do hydro and electric cars ring any bells? I expect that more alternative will be seen in the future. I agree their technology is still new and has a long way to go, however, those who are pragmatic do as they always do, look for ways to resolve a problem or offer an alternative.

Your view of just keep doing what we do is not only dangerous but a bit silly. The human race has always moved forward, it would seem some people just don't like change though.

What was that you claimed about red herring, when you throw reneables into a discussion on oil production. More mud slinging I see.

Ok lets take it point by point.

Oil taxation is irrelevant, our modern economy simply isn't possible without cheap energy.

Electricity, currently comes from cheap oil, gas or coal ( with a little nuclear). So electric cars are still powered by oil, gas or coal, got it?

Hydrogen fueled cars. Where does the hydrogen come from? Well its oil, gas or coal, got it now?

The only alternative to oil, gas or coal is renewables, or do you have another idea? i would like to hear it.

So rather than mudslinging i'm actually presenting some facts, which you seem unable to do.

With regards to the future maybe nuclear is our best bet, but until people realise that, which currently they generally dont, nuclear is largely off the able.

Way to go greenpeace, you helped to kill the planet!

[redandshane]

"Oil taxation is irrelevant, our modern economy simply isn't possible without cheap energy."

Oh and you haven't noticed how well that's going at the moment then? Sorry you just cant get away with saying things like that anymore

Our modern economy is failing rather spectacularly for the majority of mankind and nature
Its time for real sustainable change and that does not seem intuitive with destroying the environment to me.

[Manders]

Originally Posted by redandshane

"Oil taxation is irrelevant, our modern economy simply isn't possible without cheap energy."

Oh and you haven't noticed how well that's going at the moment then? Sorry you just cant get away with saying things like that anymore

Our modern economy is failing rather spectacularly for the majority of mankind and nature
Its time for real sustainable change and that does not seem intuitive with destroying the environment to me.

Rather the contrary, a sizeable portion of mankind, including china and india and Brazil are developing modern economies and significantly benefitting their populations. Western europe and the USA are currently struggling a bit but lifestyles are still better for the majority than at any time in history or in any other type of economy ever explored.

No sane person would object per-se to sustainable development, but buzz words and sound bites aside, what actualy are your practical, realistic suggestions?