Global Warming Mad

[John D]

Originally Posted by Earth Hart

Yes, it was measurable but below the natural background radiation we recieve every day. As I've said, please look at the present day research, not from 20 or even 55 yrs ago. I have had to come to terms, myself, with NP, as for 40yrs I've been against it. Looking at what is in the public domain & in other places, I've come to see that it, along with wave, is the best way forward. I am not listening to the government, nor the industry but have come to this by my own research. Solar & Wind have a part to play but only a very small part, they will only generate at the most about 25%, where do we find the other 75%?

It's a Damage Limitation exercise that has to be done at this time. We can't wait until the technology catches up as by then it Will be Too Late. Please read "The Revenge of Gaia" by James Lovelock, then you may see where I'm coming from.

JohnD, Prof Geoffrey Salter, of Glasgow Uni., back in the '70s, came up with the "Ducks" which were so efficient that the Powers that be got rid of them by forcing him to sell the designs to Westinghouse, in the USA. By the way, they built Three Mile Island.

I do feel, that with 24/7 energy, wave & tidal power are the way forward, after all, we are an island & have the 2nd largest tides in the world so why the **** are we not using them?

In fact when I referred to Wave Power 30 years ago , it was Prof Steven Salter and his 'nodding duck' who was at Edinburgh Uni, I was referring too.
I certainly go along with the rest you were saying.
With regards to wind power the maximum 'annual load factor' is estimated to be around 30/35%. This means max energy produced = rated output*8760*0.3/0.35 per annum. Wave power is likely to be significantly better. The correct siting of both schemes of course is the deciding factor.
A nuclear power station can have a Annual Load Factor very near to 100%
John D

[Earth Hart]

Originally Posted by John D

In fact when I referred to Wave Power 30 years ago , it was Prof Steven Salter and his 'nodding duck' who was at Edinburgh Uni, I was referring too.
I certainly go along with the rest you were saying.
With regards to wind power the maximum 'annual load factor' is estimated to be around 30/35%. This means max energy produced = rated output*8760*0.3/0.35 per annum. Wave power is likely to be significantly better. The correct siting of both schemes of course is the deciding factor.
A nuclear power station can have a Annual Load Factor very near to 100%
John D

Thanks Jonh fro puting me right, I knew it was Salter's Ducks but got not only his name wrong also the Uni.
It's sad what happen to him & his design, I saw a sea loch trial that was filmed for Tomorrow's World, it was amazing, the results showed something like 78-85% efficientcy. When, in '79, he went to go for a large scale sea trial, he & the Uni. aproached the Thatcher government for funding & they were turned down. I think it was 2 or 3yrs later the Ducks were sold.

I'm glad there is someone who knows what's going down.

[John D]

Hi Earth Hart, I attended a number of his lectures and visited his Lab a few times. There wasn't a more enthusiastic person at the time devoted to an 'alternative source of energy'.
John D

[Earth Hart]

Originally Posted by John D

Hi Earth Hart, I attended a number of his lectures and visited his Lab a few times. There wasn't a more enthusiastic person at the time devoted to an 'alternative source of energy'.
John D

You lucky barsteward Do you know his whereabouts these days?

[lewisa]

I interpreted the earthquake remark as a highlight to the fact that through modern mass media we hear about *every* event of note. Whereas not more than say 50 years ago, very little information of distaters in far off lands hit the news.

Therefore it all seems more drastic these days because we hear of many more distaters, but is this a result of there being more distasters, or just a result of us finding out about more of them through modern media with the mean number of distasters not actually changing that much.

I have to say I believe that a large portion of the issue can be attributed to this.

[lewisa]

sorry, pls ignore double post.

[John D]

Originally Posted by Earth Hart

You lucky barsteward Do you know his whereabouts these days?

Hi Earth Hart, I don't know where he is these days but he was a member of a panel 3/4 months ago on TV. Obviously the subject was 'alternative energy systems'.
John D

[PMG]

We're not using wave power cos of the places they need to be put to work: ie: the Severn Barrage, Morecambe Bay Barrage, the Wash etc etc. All these estuarys are home to a huge proportion of our wintering waders - covering these mudflats with water - will deprive wintering redhshank, curlew, dunlin, knot, turnstone and the like of their food and feeding grounds and in turn rob Britain of its wader population ultimately. Also bankside erosion and higher water levels in the rivers used also effects wildlife adversely. Catch 22 - it would help us to carry on living our modern lives but would rob us of one of the very things that brings us onto this particular website - a portion of Britains wildlife. . . .

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

I'm not sure that he did, how do you know that our ancestors conducted themselves as you describe?

I agree Gill , all though some will look at the past through rose tinted spectacles I think in fact you will find that our ancestors spent much of their time fighting each other for land and resources - romans vs celts , celts vs saxons , saxons vs danes, Aenglish vs normans, English vs Spanish , English Vs French etc etc

I would think that if you were fighting for ethnic survival it would be exceedingly unlikely that you would take beautiful care of the environment - true the druidic tribes worshiped the earth kind of , unless of course they were mithrasists , isis followers or a varierty of other polythesistic cults - but this didnt mean that they hugged every tree - who cleared the wildwood and created feudal farmland after all ?

It is also proven beyond reasonable doubt that life back then was , like the man said , nasty brutish and short - it is only our modern way of life which has released the time and resources to engage in modern earth worship - if you were toiling from dawn to dusk to scratch a living and risking every day defeat and extinguishment of your way of life by hostile invaders then you really wouldnt have had the time.

[John D]

Originally Posted by PMG

We're not using wave power cos of the places they need to be put to work: ie: the Severn Barrage, Morecambe Bay Barrage, the Wash etc etc. All these estuarys are home to a huge proportion of our wintering waders - covering these mudflats with water - will deprive wintering redhshank, curlew, dunlin, knot, turnstone and the like of their food and feeding grounds and in turn rob Britain of its wader population ultimately. Also bankside erosion and higher water levels in the rivers used also effects wildlife adversely. Catch 22 - it would help us to carry on living our modern lives but would rob us of one of the very things that brings us onto this particular website - a portion of Britains wildlife. . . .

Yes Pauline all the 'alternatives' will have an affect on ALL living creatures and on US humans as well. There will be a heavy price to pay.However if GLOBAL WARMING has to be avoided and greenhouse gases drastically reduced, we, whether we like it or not will have to accept it. There are many who want change, but don't fully understand the technicalities involved and the consequences that will have to be born by all living creatures.
If nothing is done and the effects of global warming are what the experts are predicting there will also be severe suffering. WHAT CHOICE DO WE HAVE. There is NO easy answer!
John D

[Earth Hart]

Originally Posted by PMG

We're not using wave power cos of the places they need to be put to work: ie: the Severn Barrage, Morecambe Bay Barrage, the Wash etc etc. All these estuarys are home to a huge proportion of our wintering waders - covering these mudflats with water - will deprive wintering redhshank, curlew, dunlin, knot, turnstone and the like of their food and feeding grounds and in turn rob Britain of its wader population ultimately. Also bankside erosion and higher water levels in the rivers used also effects wildlife adversely. Catch 22 - it would help us to carry on living our modern lives but would rob us of one of the very things that brings us onto this particular website - a portion of Britains wildlife. . . .

Wave & Tidal power generation are two different things, the places you mention relate to tidal power not wave. Wave energy generators can be setup out to sea, not as barrages across estuaries, also they are more efficient. There is another form of generation called OTEC, Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion, this was researched by people in the UK & Japan during the '70s & '80s but again our government would have none of it. I think now there is some more movement in this country again, so let's hope it comes together.

I am not in favour of Tidal Barrages but there are other ways of Tidal Power generation whish are aslo being developed but these will take between 20 & 30yrs to come on stream. In that time we'll be well on the way downside. Until people understand that the country cannot run on wind & solar power we are heading for disaster in 10 -20yrs. I would say that we have about 5yrs in which to act if we start planning now, and yes, that means Nuclear. I have two grandchildren & I want them to have a life that wont be fraught with environmental disasters caused by peoples fears now.

So many environmentalists & eco types have their heads stuck up their own, well you know where, that they can't see the whole picture, they are like a racehorse, blinkered, they only see what is in front of their noses & in most cases it's been put there by themselves. Modern Nuclear power tchnology has moved on from April 25th. 1986. Please look at it not in fear, as most do, but with understanding & an open mind. So many are so closed down they don't think of their children or grandchildren & what it may be like in 30-40yrs time, they dwell in the past with old fears that eat into their lives stoping them opening their minds to the whole.

I'm starting to rant so I'll end it.

[John D]

Yes Earth Hart I agree. There is NO quick fix. The alternatives are mainly at the 'talking stage'. We are at least TWENTY YEARS behind where we should be.
If we have to avoid 'energy blackouts' during the next 10 to 20 years we will have to accept the proven methods that we have today.
John D

[Earth Hart]

Originally Posted by John D

Yes Earth Hart I agree. There is NO quick fix. The alternatives are mainly at the 'talking stage'. We are at least TWENTY YEARS behind where we should be.
If we have to avoid 'energy blackouts' during the next 10 to 20 years we will have to accept the proven methods that we have today.
John D

At the moment I think we have to go for this "Clean Coal Technology" but I don't know enough about it & we'll still be burning fossil fuels. Do you know how long it takes to build & bring on stream a Nuclear Power Station?

[John D]

Originally Posted by Earth Hart

At the moment I think we have to go for this "Clean Coal Technology" but I don't know enough about it & we'll still be burning fossil fuels. Do you know how long it takes to build & bring on stream a Nuclear Power Station?

Since the last nuclear station was built in the UK many years ago now, I fear we might have to rely on expertise, build and design from outwith the UK. France maybe, since they have considerable on going experience of nuclear. France being highly dependent on it for electricity generation.
Time to build ??????? years. Again a decision should have been made before now!
John D

[Earth Hart]

Originally Posted by John D

Since the last nuclear station was built in the UK many years ago now, I fear we might have to rely on expertise, build and design from outwith the UK. France maybe, since they have considerable on going experience of nuclear. France being highly dependent on it for electricity generation.
Time to build ??????? years. Again a decision should have been made before now!
John D

Glad I've got gas & have a lot of candles So come the blackouts... but then what happens if Russia turns off the gas no more venison with juniper & garlic sauce

[lewisa]

Originally Posted by Earth Hart

Do you know how long it takes to build & bring on stream a Nuclear Power Station?

Probably less than it takes to decommision it I seem to recall a figure of about 10 years being banded about.

I say build so much nuclear it makes the no-coal, no-oil, no-choice French jealous, if thats possible. People who disagree should be given a windmill, a solar panel and an excercise bike with a dynamo attached and be totally isolated from the grid. Then when their batteries run down they can try pedalling in the dark for a cuppa.

Long term I reckon over-unity devices that tap into zero-point energy will save the day, but while the existance of this energy and its ability to provide over-unity is a core part of quantum physics and therefore very real and achievable (without breaking the 2nd law of thermodynamics), methods of tapping it have not yet been discovered. Unless you believe the suppression conspiricy theorists of course.

[Earth Hart]

Originally Posted by lewisa

I say build so much nuclear it makes the no-coal, no-oil, no-choice French jealous, if thats possible. People who disagree should be given a windmill, a solar panel, and an excercise bike with a dynamo attached and be totally isolated from the grid. Then when their batteries run down they can try pedalling in the dark for a cuppa.

I like that idea It will keep them fit

[Owl-Light]

Originally Posted by lewisa

...I say build so much nuclear it makes the no-coal, no-oil, no-choice French jealous, if thats possible. People who disagree should be given a windmill, a solar panel and an excercise bike with a dynamo attached and be totally isolated from the grid. Then when their batteries run down they can try pedalling in the dark for a cuppa.

lol. Those of us with a combination of French origins and an interest in Bushcraft would probably find a far more comfortable solution to the making a cuppa scenario, you know

[nick_rowe]

Did anyone else go to the 2006 Schumacher lecture in Bristol last weekend? I heard about it via Resurgence magazine...(which is a superb read by the way!)
Anyway, I wasn't sure what to expect but came away REALLY pleased that I went..
There were 3 excellent speakers including George Monbiot. (see Monbiot.com ). To reduce his brilliant speech down to a nutshell, he implores that "it is time to act - stop watching TV in the evening and put some effort into spreading knowledge about CC and forcing political activity". On this front see:
Stop Climate Chaos - News & Events

If you are interested in making your voice heard, join the gathering. It will be inspirational and another small step in the necessary direction.

[Owl-Light]

Originally Posted by nick_rowe

Did anyone else go to the 2006 Schumacher lecture in Bristol last weekend? I heard about it via Resurgence magazine...(which is a superb read by the way!)
Anyway, I wasn't sure what to expect but came away REALLY pleased that I went..
There were 3 excellent speakers including George Monbiot. (see Monbiot.com ). To reduce his brilliant speech down to a nutshell, he implores that "it is time to act - stop watching TV in the evening and put some effort into spreading knowledge about CC and forcing political activity". On this front see:
Stop Climate Chaos - News & Events

If you are interested in making your voice heard, join the gathering. It will be inspirational and another small step in the necessary direction.

Thanks for the link Nick. A lot of info there, I'll delve into it a bit tomorrow.

From my own point of view, I've come to the conclusion that the best way to act is to lead by example rather than get too vocal about it. I hear so much talk but see so little action on an individual level. And where minds are set you won't change them with words alone.

What inspires people most is seeing someone actually changing things in their own small way, making it work and still living well. On that score I've taken some steps which have lead to results I'm really pleased about but like most of us still have a lot to work on. Got some new projects in mind and having fun putting them into practice. Thats the thing it is actually fun, which might surprise some peeps

[nick_rowe]

Originally Posted by Sheryl LaBouchardiere

Thanks for the link Nick. A lot of info there, I'll delve into it a bit tomorrow.

From my own point of view, I've come to the conclusion that the best way to act is to lead by example rather than get too vocal about it. I hear so much talk but see so little action on an individual level. And where minds are set you won't change them with words alone.

What inspires people most is seeing someone actually changing things in their own small way, making it work and still living well. On that score I've taken some steps which have lead to results I'm really pleased about but like most of us still have a lot to work on. Got some new projects in mind and having fun putting them into practice. Thats the thing it is actually fun, which might surprise some peeps

Yes, it is great to lead by example. It is the best way. I take my hat off to people making any changes for the better... Well done! But at the same time, deciding to cycle to work (for instance) has the unfortunate side effect to making a bit more space on the road to be filled by another new car!! Because of the urgency of the climate change issue, many solutions will have to be forced on people... I truly agree that everyone can live well with MUCH smaller eco footprints, and it can be fun and improve community cohesion.
At the moment our MPs are only saying what they "need" to say. They mention Carbon Rationing but then take it no further. Just a bit of "greenwash", so to speak. But it HAS to go further if we are to achieve any worthwhile results. And in our wonderful democracy, the only way awkward issues like this get addressed is through voter pressure. The consequences of climate change with regard to knock on effects within freshwater supply, agriculture etc are SO great that I feel we all have a moral duty to try to forge a solution -ASAP!!

[Owl-Light]

Good on you Nick, I admire your commitment.

[Earth Hart]

Originally Posted by nick_rowe

Yes, it is great to lead by example. It is the best way. I take my hat off to people making any changes for the better... Well done! But at the same time, deciding to cycle to work (for instance) has the unfortunate side effect to making a bit more space on the road to be filled by another new car!! Because of the urgency of the climate change issue, many solutions will have to be forced on people... I truly agree that everyone can live well with MUCH smaller eco footprints, and it can be fun and improve community cohesion.
At the moment our MPs are only saying what they "need" to say. They mention Carbon Rationing but then take it no further. Just a bit of "greenwash", so to speak. But it HAS to go further if we are to achieve any worthwhile results. And in our wonderful democracy, the only way awkward issues like this get addressed is through voter pressure. The consequences of climate change with regard to knock on effects within freshwater supply, agriculture etc are SO great that I feel we all have a moral duty to try to forge a solution -ASAP!!

What you say is sad but true. We have 2 more years before the next Gen. Elections & that's 2yrs too late. MPs have to stop talking & act Now, even the Cons have no real policies concerning CC. And as I've said in previous posts, wind & solar are not the remedy for the country as a whole, we do have to have NP,at least for 20-30 years so that other technologies (Wave & Tidal) can come up to speed. Biofuels are a NO NO & as GM say, micro generaters are out. IF you go for Wind then look at Exmoor when it is coverd with wind farms, the Peak District, the Lake District & all the beautiful landscapes Covered with wind turbines, would it still be a beautiful countryside, NO.