Bad science ....

[Paul mabbott]

We do get such a load of twaddle written on to this and other fora that one wonders where it comes from. Were people so badly educated? Are so many people in the pay of Exxon and other polluters?
I suspect that the ignorance demonstrated is because people read something in their daily paper and take it as the truth. Often what is published in newspapers combines poorly understood science with seriously bad journalism. A very good example in today's Daily Mail: Turkey Twizzlers are GOOD for you and polar bears AREN'T dying out! | Mail Online

Haven't enough space or time to go into all the lies here but take a few:

1 "Meanwhile, data from between 1880 and 2000 shows a close correlation between increased solar activity and higher average temperatures on Earth. So couldn't it be that the Sun is responsible for heating us up after all?" Patently the sun warms us up (no sun, no heat); probably solar activity causes changes in Earth temperature; however this does not mean that other phenomena don't also have an effect on climate. No mention of the 'greenhouse effect' at all.

2 "But so confident are property owners in the Maldives that the sea is receding, they are building a flurry of lavish seafront hotels."
Bizarre - who's advice would you prefer: the majority of the world's scientists or a group of property developers and estate agents?

3 "But what is often ignored is that in the Earth's past, carbon dioxide levels have often been as much as ten times higher than they are today."
I don't know any scientist who would ignore this. The high CO2 levels in the Devonian era coincided with the highest temperatures on the formed Earth: when most of the land surface was desert - it's where our sandstones come from. This one is a bit of an own goal.

4 "A widespread belief has emerged that organic foods are better for you than others because they do not contain 'chemicals' used in large- scale conventional farming. This dogma is wrong. All plant nutriment comes from the air, in the form of CO2, and from water-soluble chemicals in the soil. The composition of these chemicals is the same, whether they come from a plastic bag or from 'natural' manure or compost."
Ignores the toxins poured onto food plants and animals and the pollution caused by industrial farming.

I could go on and on ..... The original authors have provided a few half truths but not published alternatives; the newspaper has gone even further and said that the book proves the opposite of what scientists say ... Gets my prize for bad science but I'm sure there is more out there!

[eeyore]

Quite

for instance headline example

TURKEY TWIZZLERS ARE FINE
The much-disparaged Turkey Twizzler, bugbear of TV chef Jamie Oliver, is made of recovered turkey meat and provides the same amino acids as normal turkey breast.
Corned beef, now an unfashionable meat product, is also no less nutritious than any other beef, although, like Turkey Twizzlers, it is also a reclaimed meat product.

well duh of course they contain the same amino acids as other turkey as they are from a turkey - but it kind of overlooks the issue relating to how the meat is recovered (scraped of the bones and shredded internal organs) - and they dont contain the same vitamins and other nutrients as for example a breast fillet.

also corned beef is not MRM - it is simply minced beef that as been preserved with salt then canned.

GLOBAL WARMING MIGHT EVEN BE GOOD FOR US
A warmer climate and an increase in CO2 will be a boon for farming and agriculture in general. One can even envisage returning to the warmer landscape of Roman times, when vineyards were common in England.
With less severe winters, it will also be possible to grow many crops that, because they are susceptible to the occasional frost, cannot be grown at present.

well make up your minds earlier they were saying the global warming is caused by the sun - now they are saying that it is caused by increased CO2.

the answer to why they are writing such oooo probably lies in the description of their "expertise"

Stanley Feldman, a professor of anaesthetics at London University, and Vincent Marks, a former professor of clinical biochemistry and dean of medicine at the University of Surrey.

neither has any qualification in 99% of the topics on which they are pontificating - i think i'd prefer to read jeremy clarkson who while no more knowledgeable or acurate is at least occasionally amusing.

[Meta menardi]

Please, don't suggest that journalists might twist the odd fact. I find this so hard to believe.

[RobSutton]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

....

I suspect that the ignorance demonstrated is because people read something in their daily paper and take it as the truth. Often what is published in newspapers combines poorly understood science with seriously bad journalism.

The furore around the MMR vaccine was a classic example of poor science and appallingly bad and irresponsible journalism that cost some children their lives as levels of vaccination fell.

[Hobjob]

Couldn't agree more Paul.

Incidentally the MMR fiasco is by no means over; there are still
deaths waiting to occur ...............

I have a feeling that schools are so exam and tick box orientated
that they do not have the time (?skill) to encourage enquiring minds.
Only if one does a science degree do the priciples of the scientific
method really get taught, and no doubt badly in some Unis.

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by Meta menardi

Please, don't suggest that journalists might twist the odd fact. I find this so hard to believe.

Allegedly .....

There is also the occasional bit of total incompetence - spot the minor mistake:
Killer plague of ladybirds | The Sun |News

That's just to show that I don't hold a grudge against the Daily Mail ....
oh well, if you insist ....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...tive-bugs.html

[Meta menardi]

Part of the problem comes from the strange attitude of many presenters on the media.

"Tell us a little more about your discovery, but keep it simple,please"

"Well blood circulation..."

"Please, try to cut down on the jargon"

But they love elections and speculation. Science? I would think the BBC website would blank this out as rude. Maths is seen to be boring, stupid and only for those who forget to put trousers on in the morning.

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Allegedly .....

There is also the occasional bit of total incompetence - spot the minor mistake:
Killer plague of ladybirds | The Sun |News

That's just to show that I don't hold a grudge against the Daily Mail ....
oh well, if you insist ....
How deadly ladybirds are winning the war on native bugs | Mail Online

It's a bit like when the news reported an underground station was shut down because of a swarm of wasps, which were actually Marmalade Hoverflies. D'0h!

Cheers,

Adam

[tcvarlh]

Please folks, spare a thought in pity for journalists, it is a lousy job, you have to interview people who use big and confusing words, take it down onto paper or memory recorder, drive away after saying 'Fank u' nicely to the person you have had droning in your ear for the last hour or so, drive all the way back to the office wondering why the bloke didn’t look like a footballer with all that white hair and his specs would surely get in the way when he was headin’ the ball where you hand your notes or recorder to that 'fit' bird that types fings for you, get out of the office earlier than the printers, 'cos they hog all the good spots in the boozer and you can't get to the bar proper like, have a couple and get transported to the front door about midnight, with a curry and fall asleep on the couch, come morning you wait 'til the paper-person brings your words of wisdom translated from the bumpf handed to you by that geezer yesterday and then you notice that ‘dozy bint’ in the pool has managed to spell your name wrong.
Probably not much like that in reality but it would explain quite a lot.
H

[Cellarman]

Paul

Just because it don't agree with what you believe, don't make it rubbish!

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Cellarman

Paul

Just because it don't agree with what you believe, don't make it rubbish!

no but the fact that it contradicts itself multiple times, contains half truths and downright untruths and is littered with misconceptions and simple errors does ...

[Bullseye]

Well the Polar Bear bit is true, think it's something like (and at this time of night I'm not looking it up),17 populations increasing,2 stable and 2 dwindling.
As for the MMR bit,when you have a child who has had the MMR jab then gets a really bad reaction to it,a dangerously high temperature, and just drifts away into his own world,when this happens in front of your own f***ing eyes and it's your own son,then maybe you can say something about it !,of course it's never going to be addmitted it would cost billions !(Denmark stopped putting mercury in its MMR jabs,since when autism has dropped by 60%),do a bit of research before you make facile comments !.Interview with an immunologist, "Would you give your children the MMR ?", "Good grief no !".
I despair of most people,they just believe what they are told it's like the "information superhighway" was never there !.Thankfully there are lots of specialists (who are funded as long as they say the right thing !)who can tell us the truth !.Oh, I give up,1984,it was meant to be a warning,not a freaking manual !.

[Digit]

And check out the history of sun spot max and min against Earth's temp. It's quite interesting, well documented and with a lengthy history.

Roy.

[Hobjob]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

As for the MMR bit,when you have a child who has had the MMR jab then gets a really bad reaction to it,a dangerously high temperature, and just drifts away into his own world,when this happens in front of your own f***ing eyes and it's your own son,then maybe you can say something about it !,of course it's never going to be addmitted it would cost billions !(Denmark stopped putting mercury in its MMR jabs,since when autism has dropped by 60%),do a bit of research before you make facile comments !.Interview with an immunologist, "Would you give your children the MMR ?", "Good grief no !".
I despair of most people,they just believe what they are told it's like the "information superhighway" was never there !.Thankfully there are lots of specialists (who are funded as long as they say the right thing !)who can tell us the truth !.Oh, I give up,1984,it was meant to be a warning,not a freaking manual !.

Bullseye - I deeply sorry to hear that you child had a nasty reaction to an MMR jab; you don't tell us the long term sequelae though.

Sadly, your reply is precisely what Paul was complaining about.

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

............Denmark stopped putting mercury in its MMR jabs,since when autism has dropped by 60%...........

Demonstrating that you should give people mercury compounds and that the MMR is harmless?

I despair of most people,they just believe what they are told it's like the "information superhighway" was never there !.Thankfully there are lots of specialists (who are funded as long as they say the right thing !)who can tell us the truth !.Oh, I give up,1984,it was meant to be a warning,not a freaking manual !.

See where the misinformation is coming from:
Bad science: It's not what the papers say, it's what they don't | Comment is free | The Guardian

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by Digit

And check out the history of sun spot max and min against Earth's temp. It's quite interesting, well documented and with a lengthy history.

Roy.

Yes, indeed very well studied especially by John Eddy who died last week.
John A. Eddy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - however neither Eddy nor any other serious scientist suggested that solar activity was responsible for recent climate change.
Planetary warmth correlates with solar activity to an extent; but sunspots do not correlate with the continuous and acceleratingwarming tendency that we are witnessing.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Well the Polar Bear bit is true, think it's something like (and at this time of night I'm not looking it up),17 populations increasing,2 stable and 2 dwindling.

Actually according to the IUCN polar bear group its a total of 19 populations of which 5 are declining , 5 are thought to be stable (though at risk of decline), 2 are increasing (both of which are very near land) , 6 have deficient data and 1 has no data at all

they also say

Because polar bears feed almost exclusively on ice-associated seals, changes in the sea ice that affect access to prey will have a negative effect on the bears.....Polar bears are totally reliant on the sea ice as their primary habitat. If climate change alters the period of ice cover, bears may be forced on shore for extended periods and forced to rely on stored fat. If these periods become excessively long, mortality will increase. Such changes are thought to be occurring in western Hudson Bay. Further, if the ice changes in character such that there is more open water, young cubs which are unable to swim long distances may suffer greater mortality. Sea ice is also used for access to den areas and if ice patterns change, existing den areas may be unreachable. Another factor is that in some areas, warmer temperatures and higher winds may reduce ice thickness and increase ice drift. Because polar bears must walk against the moving ice (like walking the wrong way on an escalator) increased ice movements will increase energy use and reduce growth and reproduction.

which shows the potential for climate change impact on all polar bear populations even those which are currently stable.

full info here IUCN/SSC Polar Bear Specialist Group

mind you the authors of the peice paul is complaining about are right that polar bear populations have more than doubled since the 50s - arround 10,000 in 56, now arround 25,000 (down from over 27,000 in the early ninetys) - but they overlook the rather large fact that the bears were being heavily hunted prior to 56, but are now protected. There are no reliable population figures prior to the 56 study, but annectdotal evidence suggests that the population was a lot higher than 25,000 prior to the advent of the repeating rifle.

[Digit]

That may or may not be so Paul. The reason I say that is that there are at least two cycles of sun spot activity and at the moment the activity is the lowest ever recorded as the cycles seem to have coincided.
May be, may be not, time will reveal all.

Roy.

[Meta menardi]

Bullseye, how do you square your last post with

"Just take the safety labels off and let the issue resolve itself ." ?

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Meta menardi

Bullseye, how do you square your last post with

"Just take the safety labels off and let the issue resolve itself ." ?

Yes,my bad,I did'nt check out the available info first (though not a lot was available at that time), I was more naive 15 years ago,have since learned never to trust any sort of "authority".
And I'll take your post as an attempt at humour,hopefully directed at me and not the unfortunate disability inflicted on my son ?.

[treecreeper]

On the subject of scientific illiteracy, did anyone see the story last week about the 'green' supermarket that was generating electricity for the tills from ramps at the vehicle exit? Cars drove over the ramps which generated the power. Wow! Energy from absolutely nothing! A fundamental law of physics disproved!

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Hobjob

Bullseye - I deeply sorry to hear that you child had a nasty reaction to an MMR jab; you don't tell us the long term sequelae though.

Errmm......severe autism, for life.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Yes, indeed very well studied especially by John Eddy who died last week.
John A. Eddy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - however neither Eddy nor any other serious scientist suggested that solar activity was responsible for recent climate change.
Planetary warmth correlates with solar activity to an extent; but sunspots do not correlate with the continuous and acceleratingwarming tendency that we are witnessing.

Check out this ? http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpre...dy-minimum.png

[Meta menardi]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Yes,my bad,I did'nt check out the available info first (though not a lot was available at that time), I was more naive 15 years ago,have since learned never to trust any sort of "authority".
And I'll take your post as an attempt at humour,hopefully directed at me and not the unfortunate disability inflicted on my son ?.

I addressed it to you, not in any way at your son. You have my deep sympathy for his disability.

[Digit]

It's actually one of the longest continuous records on weather Bullseye, and unlike some of the more suspect temps that have been recorded in the past, not really open to much in the way of errors.
Way back it was noticed that sun spot activity mirrored the price of wheat in England due to the harvests being affected.

Roy.