windfarms good for birds

[Ted Pearson]

Originally Posted by Picidae

'Spewing stuff out of pie holes' were your words not mine Ted.

Yes, but if you look at what I was responding to, I was not attacking you or ‘richnfamous’ with the accusation.

Originally Posted by Ted Pearson

I imagine if I was 100 meters tall with 3 really long arms rotating, they would turn away to miss me.

Originally Posted by Picidae

you were implying that migration birds would take a route to avoid wind turbine installations. .

No Picidae. No implications, I said what I meant. The geese would probably turn away to miss me.(Not alter their migration pattern)
Honestly, if you have an axe to grind and are going to pick at things you imagine me saying, I cannot stop you.

Originally Posted by Picidae

I don't deal in hypertheticals Ted.

Originally Posted by Picidae

(Including and most importantly having less/no children/stop spending millions on medical research to find more and more ways to 'extend life'/'create' life

Nope, no hypothetical there.

Originally Posted by Picidae

The realities are there is a growing and unsustainable world population which is one of, if not the main, cause of the environmental problems the world is now facing.

I would argue that there are not too many people, but the people who are here are not using the land correctly. Some of the reasons this is happening are ignorance, lack of options because of poverty and leaving areas destroyed through greed. Of course the easy way to get rid of these problems is to get most of these people and I suspect that the ones who prefer this scenario have also enacted programs that stop the use of DDT for killing malaria infected mosquitoes and using corn for fuel instead of food.(tens of millions of lives lost in Sub-Saharan Africa, mostly children under 5 yrs old) DDT

Originally Posted by Picidae

dumping more money into research for even more ways to prolong life in the hope of finding treatment we don't yet have. I wasn't suggesting the former.

My sincere condolences regarding your Father. I also lost my Father and Mother to Cancer.
Maybe Cancer was just an example of cures that prolong life and there are many more treatments and drugs that are used mainly on older patients. Consider the children with Cancer who may have a chance to live if further advances are made. According to the ‘Picidae Law’ they are dead. ‘Tis a noble gesture for these young to be sacrificed in the name of…uhhhh… IPCC theoretical models of climate that do not reflect actual climate measurements. If only the ‘Picidae Law’ could have been enacted decades ago and the death count could rival those of malaria from DDT abatement by now.

Originally Posted by Picidae

As it happens, I'm Jewish so I'm not too keen on the tone of language you use to take my argument to an extreme conclusion or it's implications. .

Yes, it is a horrible, horrible atrocity that happened. My Acadian ancestors were dealt with severely as well. In fact we would be hard pressed to find any culture, creed or religion that has not been enslaved, decimated or mostly exterminated for land, power or just because G_D told them to do it.
The part that surprises me is your suggestion of letting certain physical genetic inadequacies like cancer or maybe diabetes, MS or heart disease drive the decision of who should die. This rings similar to the tainted ideologies of weeding out the weak and ending up with some smaller group of advanced humans living in a perfect world. That is very bad political policy and the people will not stand for it.

Originally Posted by Picidae

I also suggested voluntary reduction in our lifestyle demands which you conveniently missed in order to make your point.

Did not miss it or need it to make your point. I have reduced my lifestyle to lower levels but have to pay mortgage, food, heating/cooling, use about $80 in electricity a month and the only sustainable job to keep all is 85 miles away. I do wonder how many would voluntarily vote for the ‘Picidae Law’

[rossy]

ok herd when i go out on the moors i like to hear birds singing and watch the likes of skylarks high up then descend and the curlew calling meadow pipits wheaters lapwings plovers to name but a few not see some turbines like the 26 they stuck up near me where the abundance of birds have become scarce to say the least. it might float your boat seeing turbines but sorry it does nothing for me. and dont give me technology garbage they cant get the weather forecast right . and i dont need my mates as you put it. i see you as a selfish individual in life and dont even know you personally. this is about the birds not me or you. in years to come when me or you arent around are people going to be saying to future generations these birds used to breed in our country and show footage or photos instead of observing them for themselves. so what will it be a windfarm in your backyard or beautiful countryside i know my choice and maybe one or two more think my way or one might think your way you . rossy.

[Ted Pearson]

Originally Posted by richnfamous

You obviously haven't lived 'the simple life' where you're close to nature and have time rather than money. Believe me, you can't buy that kind of beauty and peace of mind.

Been there, done that and loved it with the fondest of memories. Unfortunately, location and economy made it impossible to break loose from the big city. Once my family and I left San Diego for Goodwill Louisiana, we are very close to what you speak of. I hope I can afford not having money and plenty of time again soon.

Originally Posted by richnfamous

You're also leaping to a 'catastrophe' scenario and I feel that just clouds the issue. We've used far less energy before and we can do it again, and this time round we can use it even more efficiently - in fact, we're going to have to, due to population pressure.

Efficiency is the key. Realizing that the earth warms and cools as it always has so we can concentrate on the real effects of localized changing weather and adapting to it will prove our survival.

Originally Posted by richnfamous

Just don't kid yourself that you can maintain our current energy use.

I believe we can maintain for decades if we and if we plan carefully, use nuclear, improve solar, improve wind-power and implement hydroelectric and technology that freefeet has been posting.

Originally Posted by richnfamous

By the way: are you from the US, Ted?

Uh Oh…. I have been found out. Yes, I hope I will not be excommunicated.

[Nightranger]

Originally Posted by Picidae

Nightranger, perhaps it would be appropriate for you to declare an interest as someone who works for the RSPB?

I think your memory is short (LOL). I used to work for the RSPB but I am currently a volunteer at Marshside and not paid by the society. To set one part of the record straight though, my views on wind farms are through making my own mind up on the subject. In fact, I still reserve judgement on the RSPB's precise position on the subject but I can tell you that the society is not pushing wind farms quite in the way you think. If anything, the society has no choice but to support some form of renewable energy and as the British government will not throw its weight behind bringing down the cost of solar power, the only vaguely acceptable option is wiond power, at least for the moment.

I was talking to another volunteer a few months ago and he was under the impression the RSPB had changed its policy on wind farms but I am not aware of this being the case either. As far as I can tell, the society retains the right to judge each proposal on merit. As I said previously, I think there is a real danger that most people fall on one side or other without recourse to be ready to accept the other argument when better information comes along. I doubt if wind power is the whole answer nor should it be but we cannot wait for the politicians to get their a***s in gear.

Did you know that one of the country's leading manufacturers of solar cells ceased trading recently (my thanks to Mark Avery for pointing this out in his blog)?

[Nightranger]

Originally Posted by Ted Pearson

Uh Oh…. I have been found out. Yes, I hope I will not be excommunicated.

I think you mentioned it before.

I have to say that I am intrigued that someone in the USA would be interested in British wildlife but it is cool to have your input even if we disagree on some points.

[Ted Pearson]

Originally Posted by Nightranger

I have to say that I am intrigued that someone in the USA would be interested in British wildlife but it is cool to have your input even if we disagree on some points.

Thanks, I believe that disagreements are only differences of opinion and in most cases do not wholly describe a person’s character.
I have always had a moderate interest in wildlife and since my relocation to the back-woods of Louisiana that interest has grown. Raising horses, hunting and gardening has greatly increased my awareness of ecology, conservation and respect for wildlife. My initial contact with WAB was during one of my many searches on ‘Climate Change’ and interest in what my good neighbors in the U.K. thought about it kept me here. As a side note, this site has also opened up a new world of wildlife that I otherwise would never have known about. I am having a great time getting to know all of you.
Ted

[matt_xyz]

Originally Posted by Ted Pearson

I have been abusive in the past and after being informed that “WAB is a very friendly, polite site and we don't tolerate personal attack” I refrained. Furthermore, it seems that similar abuse is only acceptable if one is on the “right side” of the argument.

Ted, we don't care what side of the debate anyone is on, we try to keep all posts civil. I can't really see which abuse you're referring to (but maybe another mod has cleaned it up), but if you see abusive posts in future just click the red triangle that sits in the top right of each post. A mod will then look at it.

Matt

[Ted Pearson]

Originally Posted by matt_xyz

if you see abusive posts in future just click the red triangle that sits in the top right of each post. A mod will then look at it.

Matt

Thanks Matt, I will try remembering that in the future. It does not naturally occur to me press the mod button when discussions heat-up. I think I also get somewhat confused as to the severity of words cross-culturally and input from you and others on this site have helped me work on that.
By the way, I have heard rumors that you have done some study and/or research on climate change. Do you mind me inquiring what aspect your work is covering?

[Nightranger]

Originally Posted by Ted Pearson

I am having a great time getting to know all of you.
Ted

Great stuff! I will look out for any posts you put on other parts of the forum particularly if you have anything to talk about when it comes to Mustelids (weasels, otters, etc) as long as it is not about hunting them. Although I have worked in bird conservation (and still do as a volunteer) I have a lot of wildlife interests including Mustelids and more exotic creatures such as sharks (big and little), whales, elephants and more recently, invertebrates. Anyway, I have hijacked this thread long enough so look forward to catching up with you elsewhere.

Ian

[Nightranger]

Originally Posted by matt_xyz

Ted, we don't care what side of the debate anyone is on, we try to keep all posts civil. I can't really see which abuse you're referring to (but maybe another mod has cleaned it up), but if you see abusive posts in future just click the red triangle that sits in the top right of each post. A mod will then look at it.

Matt

As far as I can remember, Ted was not particularly abusive but he was a bit strong with his wording being new to WAB protocol. I like WAB because it does not get so heated and anyone turning the argument personal gets reminded pretty quickly. Sadly, my lack of contribution on other forums has eased off because this is not so true elsewhere, as Picidae could tell you.