Is the earth really dying?

[Ted Pearson]

I guess the only thing we can do is to keep our governments from overtaxing, rationing or completely removing the major source of energy this world depends on to live. Who will care if the scientists are right or wrong? When the earth either heats up or cools down, how will we cool or heat our homes? When we limit and raise the cost of energy, who will be the ones to go without? Poor and fixed-income households will cut their heating and cooling back severely or completely. Can you afford to double you petrol cost getting to work and doing the shopping? Mass transit is good only if you work and live near it. If you are so concerned about the poor little frogs losing their habitat next to the river, how concerned are you that the little bit of energy that tens of millions of 3rd world citizens need to live will be gone and they die?
We must demand that our governments have viable replacement energy in place before they restrict our current one. If all of these IPCC scientists claim that the Global Warming question is answered, why are they still working on it? Why are they still reworking models, rewording statements and quibbling amongst themselves? If they truly believe their theories and think the question is answered, every single one of them should have retooled their research to finding clean cheap sources of energy and an economically sound way of delivering that energy. That is what they would be doing if they were concerned about the condition of man. What they are actually doing is scrambling to cover their lies, pre-assumptions and retain government grant monies. Unfortunately, the deniers do not get the government money; they have to get by with about 1/1000th of that capitol mainly from private contributions.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Ted Pearson

Unfortunately, the deniers do not get the government money; they have to get by with about 1/1000th of that capitol mainly from private contributions.

you mean apart from the enourmouse injections of cash they get from the oil companies and related interests who have a vested interest in denying that releasing tonnes or carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is a bad thing - the total ammount that the gov't invests in climate research each year is less than 0.01% of what saudi arabia takes in one day from oil revenue - go figure.

plus the next largest contributor to CO2 release is building (principally the manufacture of cement and concrete) and that interest group isnt exactly short of a bob or two either.

also - and i know ive said this before -but even if the ipcc are completely wrong about climate change the oil is still going to run out - in most of our life times - and petrol prices will rocket as soon as supply is inadequate for demand which will happen much sooner, plus oil is a vaulable industrial resource and once it becomes scarce will be too precious to be burned - therefore investing in alternative sources of energy is going to be necessary anyway

[tcvarlh]

Folks, how long has OUR specie been around? And before and co-existant with us, the Neanderthaler? The two humanoid groups to make any impact on this planet! Flea bites on Earth's surface, I doubt if Earth has even noticed us. Planets, if they think, think slowly. By the time Earth gets around to scratching, we'll be gone. Something wicked this way comes! The future. And it's not ours.

We won't change anything for the better, we as a specie can see a maximum of 16 years ahead. Is there anyone, who at the age of twenty is truly concerned about their children's children's children. No, there is not, because at twenty you know you will live forever. At 50 then your Grandkids are important but not their kids children. We simply don't see that far forward. We may exercise our brains postulating the far future but that's it. Just exercise.
Perhaps if we ALL lived to be 200 and bred much slower perhaps we would think more. We just all want a quick fix.

I am in agreement that our light hearted value of other species is cause for concern, no, of course we don't have any right to take them with us on our suicide mission, however, the thought occurs to me it does not truly matter, WE are the only specie that takes notice of any other. When we go, who will race around the planet trying to rescue an endangered animal. My God, that is a sobering thought.

Long live the Cockroaches!
h

[Jim Ford]

'course the Earth isn't being endangered or adversely affected by human activities!

Jim

(P.S. How does one get sand out of ears?)

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by tcvarlh

Is there anyone, who at the age of twenty is truly concerned about their children's children's children. No, there is not, because at twenty you know you will live forever. At 50 then your Grandkids are important but not their kids children. We simply don't see that far forward. We may exercise our brains postulating the far future but that's it. Just exercise.
Perhaps if we ALL lived to be 200 and bred much slower perhaps we would think more. We just all want a quick fix.

Is this just your opinion, or are you trying to tell us our opinions? I'm afraid your telepathic abilities are a bit out of tune.

Originally Posted by tcvarlh

specie

It's species, for both singular and plural.

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by tcvarlh

We won't change anything for the better, we as a specie can see a maximum of 16 years ahead. Is there anyone, who at the age of twenty is truly concerned about their children's children's children. No, there is not, because at twenty you know you will live forever. At 50 then your Grandkids are important but not their kids children. We simply don't see that far forward.

I didn't read this initially, but since 'Amoeba' pointed it out, have done so.

I have long felt _exactly_ as you describe!

Jim

[Ted Pearson]

Originally Posted by eeyore

you mean apart from the enourmouse injections of cash they get from the oil companies and related interests who have a vested interest in denying......

When you said ‘Enormous’, it prompted me to take a look at the prospectus of Heartland Institute. (Its called research, you may enjoy it) I found they received $5.2M USD in 2007 and 16% of that was from corporations. If we were to say this enormous sum of $832,000 all came from Exxon, how would this or even the total $5.2M compare to the funding to the IPCC? With Billions of dollars going into U.N. and IPCC Alarmism and funding given to any ‘Climate Specialist’ willing to blame Uncle Bob’s dyspepsia on global warming, are we actually surprised about “seeing evidence everywhere”? Even in these threads, I find if one wants to attain a title, one must do his/her duty by attacking deniers. (Hypocrisy a plus, Spell-check not required)
You do mention the CO2 release from cement and I remind you that foundations of these wind turbines are giant footings made of concrete. It will take 5 years of operation for a windmill to offset its own carbon footprint (if high winds do not knock its blades into your house).
I did so want to draft a few lines on how you and I thought the same on some issues, but alas, the disregard of human life portrayed by your plan of creating scarce supplies of energy and investigating solutions later has put me off. It would be more humane for the Alarmists to Goosestep through India, Africa and elderly communities throughout the world with pistols in hand. You all know the limitation of energy will kill these people, why make them suffer slowly, just put a bullet in their brain.
P.S. Polar Bears are really quite cute you know. Let's keep them.

[Enogs]

I am still uncertain how much humanity has added to the system. the 'green house' gasses have always been present and have been part of climactic changes many time in Earth's history. How ever there is a change and that much cannot be denied. Whether humanity along with most other mammals and some birds will survive anything suggested can only be supposition at best. Extreme climactic changes may have been very fast in the past but even that is not proven to the satisfaction of all. So will the world end? Well yes, it's just a matter of when (not soon I suggest,) but can the world remain as we know it? I am of the opinion the answer must be no and man kind will have to change to survive. As to the rest of the animals on Earth who knows.
Enogs.

[clackdish]

Originally Posted by eeyore

you mean apart from the enourmouse injections of cash they get from the oil companies and related interests who have a vested interest in denying that releasing tonnes or carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is a bad thing - the total ammount that the gov't invests in climate research each year is less than 0.01% of what saudi arabia takes in one day from oil revenue - go figure.

plus the next largest contributor to CO2 release is building (principally the manufacture of cement and concrete) and that interest group isnt exactly short of a bob or two either.

also - and i know ive said this before -but even if the ipcc are completely wrong about climate change the oil is still going to run out - in most of our life times - and petrol prices will rocket as soon as supply is inadequate for demand which will happen much sooner, plus oil is a vaulable industrial resource and once it becomes scarce will be too precious to be burned - therefore investing in alternative sources of energy is going to be necessary anyway

there have been alternative fuels sat on the shelf for ages, bio fuels for one, the reason they have not been introduced is the massive amounts the big oil companies have got invested in the production of oil, they will not "invent" any of these till they have to, when south africa was under sanctions and embargos during the apartheid years they starting producing oil from coal,sasol pioneered the technology though it had been known for a long time it was possible, reason for not using it ,expense, as in all things the underlying factor is greed,if legislation prevents a company from making something cheaply in a country answer move to the third world and carry on.
most of these companies have the next generation of whatever it is they manufacture in place, ie mobile phone companies have just released 3G technology yet the equipment for 4G is sat next to it ready for the switch on, i spent a few months installing them, the same applies for most things these days imo eventually even these big corps will realise all the money in the universe wont make a difference if they make the planet uninhabitable, lets hope they wake up in time
sorry for the rant !!!! just makes me so mad

[Ted Pearson]

Yes it is extremely maddening. Of course the we have the next generation of power generation and we all know it is possible to implement, safe to use and can replace the gap that is created by removal of fossil fuels. Nuclear power can quickly be incorporated for our electrical needs but there has not been a power plant built in the U.S. for 30 years. Who do you think is the cause of that? The same groups that want to take oil from us now. The U.S. could have been self sufficient by now through the use of nuclear power and our own reserves of oil if the Environmental groups had not mucked the works. The EPA has done some good in the past with the CFCs, but DDT abatement was simply ‘Mass Murder’ and now they are after CO2 which will be an order of magnitude worse. U.S. politics has degraded to a point of treasonous activity that may never be recovered from conventionally. The environmental priests may not be in power but they conspire and whisper in our leader’s ears. They speak of saving the world and bringing riches but provide only mayhem and death. Even now, our leader’s eyes sparkle with the thoughts of power and glory that will cast the common man into further bondage. America will re-forge itself but in the act of doing so, how will the rest of the world react?