Climate Change/Global Warming is not

[jhewitt15]

Climate change / global warming is totally natural! All this stuff about Co2 emissions and cars killing us all is rubbish! Climate change is a natural phenomenon! The government is just taking advantage of nature to force everyone into buses and trains and bleed us dry with green taxes!

Do you remember the Ice Age? The ice caps stretched to around southern England. Then climate change happened and the ice caps melted and seas rose and various flora and fauna were killed off. Wooly Mammoths.. Were neanderthal men driving around in cars and going on holiday in jets?

NO! Climate change happened then naturally with no change in CO2 levels. THERE WERE NO CARS! The same thing is happening now and the governments are brainwashing normal people!

Now I fear for my future because now I have just left school I probably won't be able to get a car and will have to be forced get the bus and train everywhere.!

[matt_xyz]

we have had several threads on this topic and they end up going round in circles with posts becoming increasingly heated and personal. The mods then have to step in.

I won't close this thread but I would ask anyone who contributes to it to try not to rise to the provocative nature of this post. The original poster might also want to consider whether he/she may have overlooked some scientific evidence which might make the case not quite as clear cut as he/she infers

Matt

[Mercadante]

Of course the climate changes naturally - nobody has ever said otherwise. Similarly, people die naturally. But if I ran over someone in my car and then said, "It's not murder, deaths are perfectly natural! Napoleon died, and there weren't any cars around then!", I think you'd realize that that was wrong.

There is a lot of evidence now that human activities, not just natural processes, are now having a warming effect on the planet. That is the overwhelming consensus among climate scientists, not governments.

To put it at its simplest: carbon dioxide has a insulating effect (which is used commercially). We have put a great deal of it in the air, dramatically increasing its concentration in the atmosphere. People who deny that this is warming the planet are essentially saying that a mysterious process has suspended the laws of physics, and that the warming we actually see happening is a marvellous coincidence. My faith in miracles doesn't stretch quite that far.

[lol geoff]

Originally Posted by jhewitt15

Climate change / global warming is totally natural! All this stuff about Co2 emissions and cars killing us all is rubbish! Climate change is a natural phenomenon! The government is just taking advantage of nature to force everyone into buses and trains and bleed us dry with green taxes!

Do you remember the Ice Age? The ice caps stretched to around southern England. Then climate change happened and the ice caps melted and seas rose and various flora and fauna were killed off. Wooly Mammoths.. Were neanderthal men driving around in cars and going on holiday in jets?

NO! Climate change happened then naturally with no change in CO2 levels. THERE WERE NO CARS! The same thing is happening now and the governments are brainwashing normal people!

Now I fear for my future because now I have just left school I probably won't be able to get a car and will have to be forced get the bus and train everywhere.!

You forgot to add "This was supposed to be the longest summer of my life". Calm down young person make the most of your life now, things may get a lot worse later on.

[Coley]

I don't think you know what you have started. Don't start getting all religious on us now either. Just so you know these debates don't always go well.

[Strontium]

If at 15 I could have made such resounding progress in my understanding of science to make quick acurate reasoned analysis, I perhaps would now have been more successful than I am now. What I mean to say is, at that age I only just started my education in science, and it hasnt stopped today, Im twice as old, and havent stopped learning (yet I hope ) - I dont have all the answers, no one does, but some extremely well learned people with lifetimes worth of scientific achievements the world over are all saying the same thing. They likely hold distiguished positions in faculties, facilities, organisations, etc, and would be considered in amongst the most intelligent people on the planet. The fact that they spent most of their lives researching, gaining experience and listening to their peers should make you aware that they arent in it for the corporate cash.

[jhewitt15]

Originally Posted by matt_xyz

we have had several threads on this topic and they end up going round in circles with posts becoming increasingly heated and personal. The mods then have to step in.

I won't close this thread but I would ask anyone who contributes to it to try not to rise to the provocative nature of this post. The original poster might also want to consider whether he/she may have overlooked some scientific evidence which might make the case not quite as clear cut as he/she infers

Matt

It wasn't meant to be provocative. I am just so frustrated that I won't be able to have a car until Im at least 30! and that while the government officials live in giant heated houses I might not be able to afford a small flat.

Youre right about the specialists who have worked their entire lives in weather and climate, but I think the government have exaggerated it to be worse than it is.

There is lots of evidence to point to global warming but there are other pieces of evidence that point against it.

Why did the Ice Age end with no cars about? I'm not sure myself... and I am asking for the answer? - not to start a debate.

[jhewitt15]

Originally Posted by Strontium

If at 15 I could have

I'm 16 by the way - jhewitt15 is my email adress from when I was 15 and it just easier to have the same user name in everything I do,

[matt_xyz]

Originally Posted by jhewitt15

Why did the Ice Age end with no cars about? I'm not sure myself... and I am asking for the answer? - not to start a debate.

the ice age ended because there is natural variability in the climate. No one disputes this. If there were no people on the planet the climate would still change. However, this doesn't mean human activity isn't adding to this natural change, the evidence strongly suggests it is. This means any such change could be greater, and much more rapid, than would be occurring naturally.

It is the scientific community who provides the evidence for climate change, not the government. The government aren't saying anything that isn't supported by the IPCC (the coalition of world scientists).

Matt

[Paul mabbott]

Nicely put.

Originally Posted by Mercadante

Of course the climate changes naturally - nobody has ever said otherwise. Similarly, people die naturally. But if I ran over someone in my car and then said, "It's not murder, deaths are perfectly natural! Napoleon died, and there weren't any cars around then!", I think you'd realize that that was wrong.

There is a lot of evidence now that human activities, not just natural processes, are now having a warming effect on the planet. That is the overwhelming consensus among climate scientists, not governments.

To put it at its simplest: carbon dioxide has a insulating effect (which is used commercially). We have put a great deal of it in the air, dramatically increasing its concentration in the atmosphere. People who deny that this is warming the planet are essentially saying that a mysterious process has suspended the laws of physics, and that the warming we actually see happening is a marvellous coincidence. My faith in miracles doesn't stretch quite that far.

[ChrisJB]

Originally Posted by jhewitt15

It wasn't meant to be provocative. I am just so frustrated that I won't be able to have a car until Im at least 30! and that while the government officials live in giant heated houses I might not be able to afford a small flat.

Youre right about the specialists who have worked their entire lives in weather and climate, but I think the government have exaggerated it to be worse than it is.

There is lots of evidence to point to global warming but there are other pieces of evidence that point against it.

Why did the Ice Age end with no cars about? I'm not sure myself... and I am asking for the answer? - not to start a debate.

Google Milankovic Theory Hewitt. It sounds right up your street. Or do a Geology 'A' Level and you will be introduced to it then as well. A degree in the subject probes deeper still....and so on...
It's all interesting stuff anyway.

Regards, Chris

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by jhewitt15

It wasn't meant to be provocative. I am just so frustrated that I won't be able to have a car until Im at least 30! and that while the government officials live in giant heated houses I might not be able to afford a small flat.

Youre right about the specialists who have worked their entire lives in weather and climate, but I think the government have exaggerated it to be worse than it is.

There is lots of evidence to point to global warming but there are other pieces of evidence that point against it.

Why did the Ice Age end with no cars about? I'm not sure myself... and I am asking for the answer? - not to start a debate.

Climate change or Global Warming won't stop you from getting a car.

Cost of oil or MUCH more importantly, LACK OF OIL might well though, and not just you!
And that won't just stop you getting a car - lack of oil will quite literally (by necessity) change the way the short-sighted western world works (or won't work) and may well come as a huge shock to very, VERY many oil-dependant nations.

Many other things to consider for you, me, and everyone as well as global warming - no hysteria/rage/depression needed over any of them.

TBR

[forfi]

Originally Posted by Strontium

I I dont have all the answers, no one does, but some extremely well learned people with lifetimes worth of scientific achievements the world over are all saying the same thing. They likely hold distiguished positions in faculties, facilities, organisations, etc, and would be considered in amongst the most intelligent people on the planet. The fact that they spent most of their lives researching, gaining experience and listening to their peers should make you aware that they arent in it for the corporate cash.

Problem is that the only ones getting publicity are the ones who "sold out" by aligning themselves with the IPCC .A bias has crept in to the selection of papers by scientific journals.We must at all times bear in mind that the IPCC is a political body,not a scientific one and responds to the dictates of the UN and not science.Circular citation is creeping in and peer reviewing is becoming incestuous.Much of the data fed into the computer models used to try to scare us is incomplete as a quick perusal of the recent scientific press will confirm

[Paul mabbott]

It has taken a long time for people to persuade governments (and not all governments are yet accepting ) about the problems of pollution, especially anthropogenic climate change.

You seem to have some severe problems/obsessions:
What's so wrong about not having a car until you're 30, 50, 70? Why is car-possession a 'human right'? As to home ownership - that problem seems to stem mainly from the greed of USAmerican banks ... absolutely uncontrolled by their government and certainly not by ours ....

You have an anti-"government" thing but don't mention industrialists living in "giant heated houses" - so car manufacturers, oil exploiters etc are free to do what they will whereas our elected governments are not entitled to take action against pollution.

Do try and work these things through. Clearly young people nowadays are inclined, indeed encouraged, to think that they should have any and every thing they want now but you might be able to see that there are longer-term pleasures and aims which we could all co-operate in .... ?

Originally Posted by jhewitt15

It wasn't meant to be provocative. I am just so frustrated that I won't be able to have a car until Im at least 30! and that while the government officials live in giant heated houses I might not be able to afford a small flat.

Youre right about the specialists who have worked their entire lives in weather and climate, but I think the government have exaggerated it to be worse than it is.

There is lots of evidence to point to global warming but there are other pieces of evidence that point against it.

Why did the Ice Age end with no cars about? I'm not sure myself... and I am asking for the answer? - not to start a debate.

[Meta menardi]

Originally Posted by jhewitt15

It wasn't meant to be provocative. I am just so frustrated that I won't be able to have a car until Im at least 30!

Like about 90 % of people on the planet.
Do your legs not work?
Where do you need to go?
Are there buses, maybe trains. Bicycles even!

[Coley]

Originally Posted by jhewitt15

I'm 16 by the way - jhewitt15 is my email adress

I think your missing the point in the post Strontium had typed.

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by forfi

Problem is that the only ones getting publicity are the ones who "sold out" by aligning themselves with the IPCC .A bias has crept in to the selection of papers by scientific journals.We must at all times bear in mind that the IPCC is a political body,not a scientific one and responds to the dictates of the UN and not science.Circular citation is creeping in and peer reviewing is becoming incestuous.Much of the data fed into the computer models used to try to scare us is incomplete as a quick perusal of the recent scientific press will confirm

Good point - though it always has been!
It does annoy me when people hang hats on that phrase - because those that actually REALLY KNOW about peer-reviewing, still squirm a little with embarrassment!
Still.... it should be said that a "peer-reviewed" system is certainly better than having that not happen, and is probably the best system we have at present...

TBR

[forfi]

Sooner the better all our research is published by PLOS or a similar organisation . For starters we will be able to read all we want for free and not line the pockets of the big publishing houses.

[Paul mabbott]

Rubbish. The IPCC is composed of scientists, starting from the Chairman: BBC NEWS | Wales | North West Wales | Scientist's climate change honour You will find very few reputable scientists (I don't include those paid by the car and petrol industry in this category) who disagree with the basic conclusions of the IPCC. Or do you know better?

Originally Posted by forfi

............ mind that the IPCC is a political body,not a scientific one and responds to the dictates of the UN and not science. .....

[forfi]

The IPCC is not, as some believe, a group of scientists, but a panel set up by the United Nations comprising representatives from about 140 governments to consider what we currently know about climate change.

The panel decides whether an assessment is needed, and then engages scientists to conduct it.

Since its establishment in 1987, there have been four such major assessments, published roughly every five years (1990, 1995, 2001 and 2007), sprinkled with occasional special reports on specific topics.

from the BBC

[forfi]

At an IPCC Lead Authors' meeting in New Zealand, I well remember a conversation over lunch with three Europeans, unknown to me but who served as authors on other chapters. I sat at their table because it was convenient.
After introducing myself, I sat in silence as their discussion continued, which boiled down to this: "We must write this report so strongly that it will convince the US to sign the Kyoto Protocol."
Politics, at least for a few of the Lead Authors, was very much part and parcel of the process.

John Christy
Professor of Atmospheric Science, University of Alabama

[jhewitt15]

Originally Posted by Meta menardi

Like about 90 % of people on the planet.
Do your legs not work?
Where do you need to go?
Are there buses, maybe trains. Bicycles even!

I love walking and biking. I walk more than any member in my family. How would I be able to get to further away places like Silverdale to see good plants without a car in the future. eg ladys slipper, creeping ladys tresses. these plants don't grow on my doorstep and silverdale is quite inaccessible by train, bus and bike.