Is Global Warming a Natural Phenomenon?

[matt_xyz]

Originally Posted by coasty

4 , I am always nervous of believing so called facts from any official body as someone somewhere will be making buckets of money from it. Take the proliferation of windfarms... very profitable and completely unproven as a reliable source of significant quantities of electricity.

bear in mind that there are far more individuals and organisations making money out of not tackling climate change. The oil industry in the US donates a small fortune each year to support senators who are sceptical about climate change and to support anti-climate change 'think tanks' and pseudo scientific institutes. That's a major reason why the current US govt is so reluctant to tackle climate change, they're not really that worried about competition from developing nations. They're far more concerned about losing the support of the hugely powerful and hugely rich oil industry, without whom Bush would never have got to power in the first place.

Matt

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by coasty

Right Here gos...

1 . Climate change does it happen? Well yes as can be judged by ice ages and the like.
2 , Global warming is it caused by man. Well I have read many articles by people much more intelligent than I , and it would appear there is some evidence that we are influencing things. I have also read read papers by equally clever people who say its sunspot activity. So well nothing proved as yet I would say.
3 , I think as a species our existence is not having a positive effect on the planet, but I am not sure that any global warming factors are any more serious than other problems we are storing up for ourselves. ie depletion of the seas species and the pollution of the oceons.
4 , I am always nervous of believing so called facts from any official body as someone somewhere will be making buckets of money from it. Take the proliferation of windfarms... very profitable and completely unproven as a reliable source of significant quantities of electricity.
5 , The current hysteria brings to mind the year 2000 computer meltdown that every expert in the world swore would happen. The computer experts made a bundle, The newspapers and tv reported little else. The politicians were able to talk about it and tell everyone how they would deal with it. What happened well nothing as I recall....
6 , I would suggest that the public debate on climate change is great for the politicians . Opportunity for lots of grand talk and posturing and a chance to divert attention from problems that can be solved.
7 , As for advice well I would say If you live on low lying ground sell up and move to a hill top. Because the chances of the governments of the world doing anything real about the problem for at least another 20 years are zero. That is if there is a problem,,,,

Pretty well agree Andy.
The difficulty lies in semantics though, as I've alluded to before.
The title of this thread is "Is Global Warming a natural phenomenon".
Like the (changed) title of the 4x4 thread -
"Why have 4x4s" (duh - to do the job that 4x4x were invented for),
the title of this thread can be answered very simply.
"Is Global Warming a natural phenomenon?"
Strictly speaking - YES. Of course it is. As is Global Cooling.
Pedantically speaking though, in common parlance, and used by your average politician looking to gain a vote or two, as well as the man on the street, what is meant by "Global Warming" these days is actually "Anthropogenic Global Warming, or accelerated Global Warming, AGW".

Is Global Warming a natural phenomenon. Yes.
Is Anthropogenic Global Warming a natural phenomenon? By definition No. (But that said, that all depends on what one means by "natural".

So...
Is Climate change a natural phenomenon? Yes.
Is Man-induced Climate change a natural phenomenon? Similarly, depending on what you mean by "natural", in most cases I expect, NO.

Thats the trouble with debating this subject. The actual words and phrases mean very different things to many people.

AGW is a huge economy now. Believe it or not.
Like it or not.
Whether that is a good thing or not - ie it helps people at least think about behaving with a little more responsibility, ie as strontium said, much earlier, well, that may well be correct, I suppose. Maybe. I'm really not sure. Possibly, though I remain sceptical and yet to be convinced...

Strange. This is a very generic subject (it should affect us all), but incredibly specific in terms of opinion also.

Annnnyway...
Regarding your post - I certainly agree with you, basically.
Doug.

[coasty]

Morning Doug,,,,

Just knew you would be having your say on that.

and ...

8 , Heres one for you I am aqainted with a guy who owns a crane hire business, This last couple of years he has made a pile of money from erecting wind turbines in Scotland and the like, to the extent he has had to purchase and import another new heavy lifting crane. and do you know what else he bought ??? A nice sparkly top of the range Range rover,,, Now come on lets see someone work out how many acres of forest he will have to plant to balance that lot in his carbon equation......

9 , Last but not least who was it who said "We reap as we sow". Until we stop the Lunatics from running the Assylum. ....I tell you we are all doomed,,,,,,( how do you type in a private fraser type voice from dads army?).

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by coasty

Morning Doug,,,,

Just knew you would be having your say on that.

and ...

8 , Heres one for you I am aqainted with a guy who owns a crane hire business, This last couple of years he has made a pile of money from erecting wind turbines in Scotland and the like, to the extent he has had to purchase and import another new heavy lifting crane. and do you know what else he bought ??? A nice sparkly top of the range Range rover,,, Now come on lets see someone work out how many acres of forest he will have to plant to balance that lot in his carbon equation......

9 , Last but not least who was it who said "We reap as we sow". Until we stop the Lunatics from running the Assylum. ....I tell you we are all doomed,,,,,,( how do you type in a private fraser type voice from dads army?).

Heh heh!
I couldn't let you down now chap, could I?
Doug

[coasty]

Originally Posted by The Black Rabbit

Pretty well agree Andy.
AGW is a huge economy now. Believe it or not.
Like it or not.
Doug.

By matt_xyz bear in mind that there are far more individuals and organisations making money out of not tackling climate change. The oil industry in the US donates a small fortune each year to support senators who are sceptical about climate change and to support anti-climate change 'think tanks' and pseudo scientific institutes.

And another thing I agree with you both,,,, Lets be honest guys its because mankind will make money wherever they can , its why we have people who trade on shares make money on a rising and a falling market....and its why I am working in the Rail sector because I reckon all governments will have to spend there for the next 20 years. We are all here to line our pockets and give our kids the best we can . The trick is not killing the goose (or in this case the earth) that laid the golden egg as we do it.

[coasty]

I think I need to go for a lie down,,,

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by coasty

And another thing I agree with you both,,,, Lets be honest guys its because mankind will make money wherever they can , its why we have people who trade on shares make money on a rising and a falling market....and its why I am working in the Rail sector because I reckon all governments will have to spend there for the next 20 years. We are all here to line our pockets and give our kids the best we can . The trick is not killing the goose (or in this case the earth) that laid the golden egg as we do it.

Yep.
Fair enough.

Doug

[ChrisJB]

Originally Posted by coasty

Right Here gos...

1 . Climate change does it happen? Well yes as can be judged by ice ages and the like.
2 , Global warming is it caused by man. Well I have read many articles by people much more intelligent than I , and it would appear there is some evidence that we are influencing things. I have also read read papers by equally clever people who say its sunspot activity. So well nothing proved as yet I would say.
3 , I think as a species our existence is not having a positive effect on the planet, but I am not sure that any global warming factors are any more serious than other problems we are storing up for ourselves. ie depletion of the seas species and the pollution of the oceons.
4 , I am always nervous of believing so called facts from any official body as someone somewhere will be making buckets of money from it. Take the proliferation of windfarms... very profitable and completely unproven as a reliable source of significant quantities of electricity.
5 , The current hysteria brings to mind the year 2000 computer meltdown that every expert in the world swore would happen. The computer experts made a bundle, The newspapers and tv reported little else. The politicians were able to talk about it and tell everyone how they would deal with it. What happened well nothing as I recall....
6 , I would suggest that the public debate on climate change is great for the politicians . Opportunity for lots of grand talk and posturing and a chance to divert attention from problems that can be solved.
7 , As for advice well I would say If you live on low lying ground sell up and move to a hill top. Because the chances of the governments of the world doing anything real about the problem for at least another 20 years are zero. That is if there is a problem,,,,

An excellent summary. I like it.

Regards, Chris

[RantingSquirrel]

I totally disagree the the continual rereported myth that sunspots/solar activity is to the blame (or have some linkage) for current global warming/climate change. The following contains evidence that sunspots are not a current factor (or the relationship is not large enough to be an influence).
Climate myths: Global warming is down to the Sun, not humans - climate-change - 16 May 2007 - New Scientist Environment
http://publishing.royalsociety.org/m...pa20071880.pdf

[coasty]

Originally Posted by RantingSquirrel

I totally disagree the the continual rereported myth that sunspots/solar activity is to the blame (or have some linkage) for current global warming/climate change. The following contains evidence that sunspots are not a current factor (or the relationship is not large enough to be an influence).
Climate myths: Global warming is down to the Sun, not humans - climate-change - 16 May 2007 - New Scientist Environment
http://publishing.royalsociety.org/m...pa20071880.pdf

Are they giving evidence or are they scientifically argued opinions?. Evidence is the ability to circumnavigate the world therefore proving the world is round..

I dont think that anything I have heard about the subject could be classified as factual evidence. I would put everything I have read into the " the balance of probability " and " the current best scientific opinion is" catagories.

However I do live on top of a hill so the odd bit of flooding isnt a personal issue.