Please support Vale Wildlife Hospital to ban the use of snares

[Hedgehoggy]

Originally Posted by eeyore

- a stopped snare can't tighten beyong a certain diameter and its purpose is not to throttle the catch but to hold it for later humane despatch

while a free running snare can tighten it can also loosen when the pressure is off

these are the only two types that are legal , and most of the casualties brought in (including the famous shot of the cat cut nearly in half) will be victims of self locking snares which can only tighten but not loosen.

(self locking are usually now employed only by poachers who are already breaking the law and don't therefore care about such nicities as what types are legal)

there are some unfortunate animals that damage themselves with free running snares but these are very much in the minority and could be eliminated completely if free running was banned but 'stopped' left legal

This is the bone of contention. Caroline states that most of the snares in the documented cases ARE perfectly legal. A frightened animal caught in a snare won’t patiently sit still awaiting his fate, he’ll struggle to get free, sustaining horrific injuries as the wire cuts deeper into the part of the body which is being constricted.

The sequence of badger photos on Caroline’s website shows a trench that an ensnared badger dug around him in his bid to escape the wire around his neck. The wire had deeply cut into the badger’s neck muscles. He was still alive when found but had to be pts because the injuries were too severe to treat. This happened last month. The snare was perfectly legal.

These documented cases are ones brought to the wildlife hospitals' attention, there will be many, many more unreported cases. Out of curiosity, do practitioners check quarry for snare injuries before dispatch?

Originally Posted by eeyore

You can't have looked very hard - there are numerous threads on fox control in which proffesional controllers indicate that snaring is the only other option to lamping - and lamping is both very labour intensive and not always appropriate.

My apologies, I meant contributors in general, as opposed to those who only post on WAB to defend snare usage.

[muldonach]

Originally Posted by Hedgehoggy

........That aside, an outright ban is being sought because these contraptions are NOT humane, as the practitioners will have us believe. They’re also indiscriminate as there have been many documented cases of domestic pets being caught in them too.

Without wishing to be contentious if I set snares on my ground - which we do at certain periods of the year - why is it my responsibility to worry about someone elses pet? Domestic pets are the responsibility of the owner and quite simply should not be running wild, I owe a duty of care and providing I exercise common sense - nor running snare lines along footpaths etc why should I be bothered if someone's out of control dog or free hunting cat is caught up?

The legal requirement is to check snares at least once every 24 hours. Even if this does happen, an animal could have been caught and struggling to get free for almost a day, plenty long enough for it to suffer the type of injuries our wildlife hospitals have to deal with on a regular basis. Wildlife Aid in Leatherhead had to put a fox to sleep this week after it sustained terrible injuries (and obvious suffering) from being trapped in a snare

Whilst strictly speaking the above is true, foxes are generally noctural in habit and are only seen free roaming as dusk approaches or as dawn breaks. It is normal practice to get round snare and trap lines as early as possible. The law requires checks at maximum 24 hr intervals and by deduction the lawmakers have assessed this as being a practicable interval. I, and others set snares to catch foxes with the intention of "putting them to sleep", that is why we set them, I do not for example see why an irresponsibly set or monitored snare in Leatherhead should be a reason for applying a nationwide blanket ban.

Are you suggesting that all of the documented snare-injured animals our wildlife hospitals deal with, are being caught in snares set by inexperienced/unlawful practitioners?

There are some professional 'pest control' members on WAB, and I've never read of one of them citing snares as their preferred means of pest control.[/

In general I would suggest that the documented snare injured animals as pictured are indeed set by people who have little practicable experience or interest in wildlife, and little respect for the law in general and wildlife law in particular.

As such it is unlikely that such people will pay much if any heed to a blanket ban, whereas the responsible law abiding majority of wildlife and game management professionals will.

I am not too sure how many gamekeepers there are on WAB - have not seen saluikiwhippet post for a while. In general it is gamekeepers and farmers who use snares rather than pest controllers.

It would, imo, be far better to enforce the laws that we have rather than looking for more laws.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Hedgehoggy

This is the bone of contention. Caroline states that most of the snares in the documented cases ARE perfectly legal. A frightened animal caught in a snare won’t patiently sit still awaiting his fate, he’ll struggle to get free, sustaining horrific injuries as the wire cuts deeper into the part of the body which is being constricted.

a stopped snare cant cut deeper and deeper because it cant close to more than the set diameter - also foxes do in my experience sit still having discovered they can't get away.. given rabbits dont but i dont see snaring as a sensible method off rabbit control anyway ( Cymag is probably most effective - though no more humane than snaring in application)

Originally Posted by Hedgehoggy

The sequence of badger photos on Caroline’s website shows a trench that an ensnared badger dug around him in his bid to escape the wire around his neck. The wire had deeply cut into the badger’s neck muscles. He was still alive when found but had to be pts because the injuries were too severe to treat. This happened last month. The snare was perfectly legal.

Not so - a snare that is set for badger is be definition illegal as they are protected , a snare responsibly set for fox won't catch badger anyway as they walk with their heads at a different attitude and will pass beneath a responsibly set fox snare , ergo if a badger was caught then that must have been either intentional or negligent and was thus be definition illegal

Originally Posted by Hedgehoggy

My apologies, I meant contributors in general, as opposed to those who only post on WAB to defend snare usage.

Like James (saluki whippet) for example who is a proffesional keeper/ controller and posts on a range of different topics (or did until he got exasperated with certain members continually trying to get a rise out of him)

So what you are essentially saying is that you've never seen any of the proffesional keepers or pest controllers advocate the use of snares except for the many who have with whom you disagree

I dont disgree that badly or negligently used snares can cause horrific injuries , but then so can many other things (cars for example - I'd bet a higher proportion of wildlife brought into hospitals are road casualties than snare casualties)

But do we try to ban carrs or just get people to drive responsibly ?

[Hedgehoggy]

Originally Posted by muldonach

Without wishing to be contentious if I set snares on my ground - which we do at certain periods of the year - why is it my responsibility to worry about someone elses pet? Domestic pets are the responsibility of the owner and quite simply should not be running wild, I owe a duty of care and providing I exercise common sense - nor running snare lines along footpaths etc why should I be bothered if someone's out of control dog or free hunting cat is caught up?

The traps also indiscriminately snare deer, badgers and otters. Whilst I don't dispute that you operate within a strict code of conduct, you can't guarantee any unintended targeted species will be snared, and subsequently hurt/suffer in the process. There will also be many unsavoury legal trappers who do not abide by the code of conduct (those that persecute BoPs for instance). It will be nigh on impossible to police every snare legitimately set.

Originally Posted by muldonach

I am not too sure how many gamekeepers there are on WAB - have not seen saluikiwhippet post for a while. In general it is gamekeepers and farmers who use snares rather than pest controllers.

I used the term ‘pest controller’ loosely, i.e. those who regularly perform pest control.

Originally Posted by muldonach

It would, imo, be far better to enforce the laws that we have rather than looking for more laws.

I do respect your views, Mac, and do mull over your suggestions, as I know 38 Degrees will if Caroline's campaign gets considered.

[Hedgehoggy]

Originally Posted by eeyore

a stopped snare cant cut deeper and deeper because it cant close to more than the set diameter

It can if the frightened animal continuously applies pressure to pull away.

Originally Posted by eeyore

Not so - a snare that is set for badger is be definition illegal as they are protected , a snare responsibly set for fox won't catch badger anyway as they walk with their heads at a different attitude and will pass beneath a responsibly set fox snare , ergo if a badger was caught then that must have been either intentional or negligent and was thus be definition illegal

As already cited time and time again, snares are indiscriminate. There have been documented cases of deer and otters, as well as badgers (and domestic pets), being snared in legal traps.

Originally Posted by eeyore

So what you are essentially saying is that you've never seen any of the proffesional keepers or pest controllers advocate the use of snares except for the many who have with whom you disagree

Nope. Just the same few whom I expected opposition from.

Originally Posted by eeyore

I dont disgree that badly or negligently used snares can cause horrific injuries , but then so can many other things (cars for example - I'd bet a higher proportion of wildlife brought into hospitals are road casualties than snare casualties)

But do we try to ban carrs or just get people to drive responsibly ?

What a peculiar comparison to make Cars don't deliberately set out to injure or kill wildlife

[Hedgehoggy]

Thank you to the WABers who have 'silently' voted in favour of Caroline's campaign, and for the email I received offering support for this thread

[Hedgehoggy]

Originally Posted by Hedgehoggy

Out of curiosity, do practitioners check quarry for snare injuries before dispatch?

I'm still awaiting a reply to this question.

[Hedgehoggy]

Originally Posted by eeyore

there are some unfortunate animals that damage themselves with free running snares but these are very much in the minority and could be eliminated completely if free running was banned but 'stopped' left legal

@ Mac, are you in agreement with this too?

[stevet95]

Well, it shows how little I knew about the subject. I thought they were illegal unless set to catch food in a life or death situation :P and I thought they could only be set if it was set so it would kill the animal straight away so it wouldn't cause any suffering.

On the note of domestic pets: If snares were to be placed where dog walkers regularly walk could temporary warning signs be put up advising owners to put their dog on the lead until out of the area?
As for cats, well, they should be allowed to wander out and about anyways.

I have voted.

[Hedgehoggy]

Thank you, stevet95