Petition To Prime Minister

[Xanadu2]

Originally Posted by Interpreter

There should be a minimum size for the cage in which birds are kept. I suggest the following:-
Minimum height of 1.5 times the height of the bird. Minimum width 1.5 times the height of the bird. Minimum depth twice the height of the bird. They should be fed three times a day and the cage should be cleaned out once a day. The bird should be let out of the cage for one hour of exercise every 24hours.

That sounds Tiny! Much bigger! The bird should be able to flap his wings between perches!

I've been thinking about this all day.

As a lifetime ornithologist who has studied the behaviour of wild and captive birds, I’ve met this issue before and the people saying it invariably turn out to have lots of good intentions, but little real understanding of birds, putting first impressions before facts. They may claim otherwise but sooner or later they give themselves away. I have always been amazed that they apparently ‘know’ more than someone like me who has genuinely studied and observed birds, both in the wild and captivity, for a very long time.

Anti pet bird people may choose not to believe the following if it doesn’t fit their preconceived ideas, however it is fact.

When I was a kid I had a very well kept budgie. One day my mother and I noticed an escaped budgie flying round the house. Quickly we opened the window and put the spare birdcage in a conspicuous position, with seed and water. The budgie flew in though the window and entered the cage of her own free will.

No-one ever claimed her so we kept her. We believed in budgies having plenty of exercise, so every day we gently encouraged her to leave the cage and fly round the room. No way! She had had enough of being Out There, and stayed tight where she felt safe!

That was only the start. I’ve had similar experiences so often that I really can’t list them all. I’ll just mention the little parrot who rode around out of doors on my shoulder when he wasn’t in the safe haven of his home (aka cage).

One day he flew into a tree. I tried to call him out of the tree, but he sat there calling back to me. I went to fetch his cage. The moment I turned my back, he shot out of the tree, apparently terrified of me leaving him up there, crash-landing on my shoulder to ride back to the house, then going straight into the cage of his own free will, because it was in fact his territory.

Since you want to see birds enjoying good conditions, then why not turn your attention to battery chickens, as described in this week’s Channel 4 series? Now there are millions of birds whose conditions outrage any decent birdlover and who are crying out for more space and freedom!

Re the PM’s website. I’ve signed many petitions and seen the responses. No matter how worthy the cause, all the response the PM’s office is likely to give anyone at all, not just the originator of this petition, is: ‘Now, Now, dear! Auntie Government knows best! Now dry your tears, there’s a good child, and don’t upset yourself!’



Right, I seem to be keeping this thread alive all by myself, so now it's someone else's turn!

[BirdLaw]

I am not an ornithologist and do not claim a thorough understanding of bird behaviour. I do however understand what is right and what is wrong.

The behaviour of the birds as you describe below smacks to me of total instituitional behaviour. The same reactions you would expect of a confined solitary prisoner being realised into an expansive field with no concept of where they are, having had no contact with another living human and having been used only to a small cell. Is it not the case that some such prisoners commit suicide upon release, having no skills to cope in the real world and forced to adopt natural behaviour which to them has become anything but?

I am not saying that these birds who sat on your shoulder whilst you walked down the road were not happy. But what true happiness can you have from forced dependence and ignorance?

I have had many varied negative responses to this petition, all I can say is that I am glad that it has made people think. The sad reality, as you say, is that the government will not do anything about this matter and nothing will change because of it. I for one think it should. I started the petition in the hopes that at least some guidelines would be set to ensure at least some standards of living for caged birds being kept as pets. I am very depressed that after almost a year there have been just 60 signatures whereas the "change the national anthem to Gold" petition raised thousands??

I have been watching the chicken out campaign on Channel 4. I admire greatly the actions being taken to try to highlight the matter, I only hope something may come of that.

[Xanadu2]

Birdlaw,

Just a quickie. I gave you a very apt quote. ‘Wild birds live in invisible aviaries.’ If you research this statement, you will begin to see why large clean cages and aviaries, with knowledgeable people in charge, are not cruel at all.

I have a longer response in mind, but no time to type it tonight, possibly not till Sunday.

Best wishes for getting proper standards enforced. I can do without some of the 'bird dealers' I saw in the past... yuck!

[jamiewade94]

I don't think that caging birds is at all fair.

[Xanadu2]

Originally Posted by jamiewade94

I don't think that caging birds is at all fair.

But have you seriously looked into it, or are you relying merely on first impressions?

[Ukwildlifeo]

It Ill never happen. Besides captive breeding is the only hope for some species. Would You rather they go extinct?

[Rats]

I don't agree with banning caged birds, but think that if they are to be kept in captivity, then they should be kept in large cages, with plenty of toys and free range time. Also, very importantly, sociable birds like Budgies etc., should not be kept on their own...that is very cruel!

[Xanadu2]

Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo

It Ill never happen. Besides captive breeding is the only hope for some species. Would You rather they go extinct?

Exactly! And, Rats, you are quite right, but budgies tamed as soon as they are independent of thier parents become imprinted on their owners. Whether this is a good or bad thing is a subject for discussion. However, at least it mean that the pet of a housebound person, or someone else who can provide the bird with company att the time, is less likely to be lonely than a budgie caged alone at a later age, when it has started to socialise with its own species.

The smallness of some budgie cages on sale horrifies me. That sort of cage should have been made illegal long ago! Silly owners just want something to fit in with the decor! They shouldn't be keeping birds if that's how they feel! It's like the slogan: 'A dog is for life, not for Christmas!'

[Xanadu2]

Originally Posted by BirdLaw

I am not an ornithologist and do not claim a thorough understanding of bird behaviour. I do however understand what is right and what is wrong.

The behaviour of the birds as you describe below smacks to me of total instituitional behaviour. The same reactions you would expect of a confined solitary prisoner being realised into an expansive field with no concept of where they are, having had no contact with another living human and having been used only to a small cell. Is it not the case that some such prisoners commit suicide upon release, having no skills to cope in the real world and forced to adopt natural behaviour which to them has become anything but?

I promised a longer response later. The key to both my birds’ returns was of course, the availability of food. Constant food supplies are a bigger issue for birds than they are for mammals. Birds need a very high rate of metabolism to enable them to fly. The result is that a period without food spells mere hunger for a mammal but imminent death for a small bird. It follows that most wild birds spend most of their time, not revelling in flight for its own sake, but finding good food supplies, and this, among other factors, controls their movements so they are not nearly as ‘free’ as they appear.

I always thought the budgie who came back acted as she did because she had been traumatised in the wild. Since I didn’t believe her to be happy and obviously couldn’t release her in the Australian Outback, she eventually went to a large aviary where she settled well.

As for the parrot who flew out of a tree sooner than be left up there alone, he was an exuberant personality who left no-one in any doubt at all about what he did and did not like! No-one who ever encountered such a giant personality in such a small body could possibly have imagined the bird was institutionalised or unhappy! The description simply does not fit!

Did I mention ‘King Solomon’s Ring’ by Korrad Lorenz? He recounts many very interesting, moving and also amusing encounters with birds and animals. I mainly recollect a flock of jackdaws, but he also wrote about a cockatoo. I could quote many books of this sort, but have chosen this one for a reason. Its author won the Nobel Prize for his studies of bird and animal behaviour.

Enough said!

However I am glad you support action in favour of free-range chickens, and I am with you all the way on banning undersized bird cages and abuses by the bird trade.

[Blackpatch]

I have signed but with reservations. I think that pigeon fanciers and falconers are fine in what they do, but to keep a song bird or a parrot couped up in a cage is so sad.

[hank]

There are certainly some unsavory practices going on in the trading of birds, this could do with addressing, but I think that governments are aware of it.
Why ban ( for instance), racing pigeons or falcons (raptors). Both have people looking after them and allow them to fly freely.
In the wild a raptor hunts, eats and then 'parks' till it's time to do it all again. A falconer effectively provides a secure house for it and guarentees that it gets fed.
How would this ban be implemented? Would existing birds have to be released into the wild. If not, then what happens to those that live for 25 - 30 years ?

[naturelover]

Right, time to put my bit in,as you all know i keep cockatiels,my birds are well cared for,i would not keep an animal bird or fish if i didnt know what i was doing,these are the people that are wrong,taking on any an animal bird or fish without knowing what they have to do,befor i took anything on i read up on it,in fact if i get a problem the first thing i do is read a book on the subject,there must be thousands of birds in averies in this country and yes what ever would happen to them if they were banned,its a wonder we are allowed to breath air.

[baggy2508]

Originally Posted by Yaffle

As I said before, keeping birds in cages is cruel, you can try and justify your selfish desires as much as you like but the bottom line is that you are depriving a creature of it's freedom.

Before you start accusing me of not liking birds or knowing what it is like to have them, when I was a child I had pet birds and the thought of those poor creatures being kept captive all their lives because of my selfishness in wanting to keep them still fills my heart with despair. Birds should be free to fly.

Sorry Yaffle but I think its time you got a life.

[naturelover]

Welcome to the site,please dont be put off by the replys,you will enjoy this forum so stay and have fun.

[Xanadu2]

Originally Posted by naturelover

Right, time to put my bit in,as you all know i keep cockatiels,my birds are well cared for,i would not keep an animal bird or fish if i didnt know what i was doing,these are the people that are wrong,taking on any an animal bird or fish without knowing what they have to do,befor i took anything on i read up on it,in fact if i get a problem the first thing i do is read a book on the subject,there must be thousands of birds in averies in this country and yes what ever would happen to them if they were banned,its a wonder we are allowed to breath air.

Naturelover, you are so right!

What about the birds who are threatened with extinction because of habitat destruction, but live and breed happily in aviaries belonging to experts who will reintroduce them innto the wild, if they can ever find a sufficiently good habitat? Do people know about the work done by Gerald Durrell, for example?

If keeping birds was genuinely ‘selfish’, then genuine birdlovers wouldn’t do it! It’s that simple! It always amazes me that people who’ve never looked into an issue beyond the rudiments ‘know’ more than someone who won the Nobel Prize for studying the same subject!

The real bottom line is that first impressions are not always correct. And my parrot wasn’t in a cage, except when he wanted to be! This exuberant little personality came and went as he pleased and made his preferences known!

For goodness’ sake, let’s focus on improving life for intensively farmed chickens!

[witham]

Trouble is where would it stop, we keep a few birds in a large avairy, they are well looked after and live far longer than they would do in the wild, we also keep chickens, all breeds of which originate from Jungle fowl and their natural instincts would be to run wild and roost in the trees, we also have a dog whos confined to the house/garden apart from 'walkies', who's natural instinct would be to run free and hunt in a pack etc, I've not even mentioned our fish which we keep in a pond in the garden, then there's our Shetland pony who is confined to a field and not able to run wild as he would in the 'real' world.

[epops]

I have kept various bird in the past from canaries and british birds to owls all of my bird were well looked after and kept in large avairys apart from one really abused barn owl who lived indoor's with us because thats how the previous owner kept him and the poor thing was so imprinted he could'nt live anywhere else the only other bird not to live in an avairy was a semi tame jackdaw unfortunatley due to work commitments and illness i had to give all my birds to a friend who now devotes all his time to his birds