Stop high speed 2!

[pressld2]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

Some sites were so suited to development (based on things like poor existing biodiversity, good existing road/ rail network) that it seemed to me that protesters who really hated the idea should just move away because development would happen sooner or later even if the first attempt is defeated.

Spot on Gill! We defeated the Belvedere Energy from Waste Incinerator three times (or was it four - I lost count ) but they kept on coming back with slightly different proposals and starting the whole thing off again until they eventually won the day. And the rubbish it will be burning is from Richmond, Kensington and Wandsworth, the other side of London from us. All three of those boroughs had (and still have) suitable sites for such an incinerator but we in Bexley got labelled the nimbies!

I'm not convinced that HS2 will detract aesthetically from any AoNB that it runs through. At least it needn't. Geoffrey Palmer described the idea of a 400metre viaduct across one valley as "unbelievable desecration" but if someone were to propose demolishing the Ribblehead viaduct (or Berwick-upon-Tweed's or the one at Dentdale) there would be a massive outcry and words like "unbelievable desecration" would be used again. And in my opinion, rightly so. They are truly beautiful structures that add something to the landscape rather than detract from it.

Dave P.

P.s. I'll support your alternative route Pete!

[Pete Collins]

Originally Posted by pressld2

...

I'm not convinced that HS2 will detract aesthetically from any AoNB that it runs through. At least it needn't. Geoffrey Palmer described the idea of a 400metre viaduct across one valley as "unbelievable desecration" but if someone were to propose demolishing the Ribblehead viaduct (or Berwick-upon-Tweed's or the one at Dentdale) there would be a massive outcry and words like "unbelievable desecration" would be used again. And in my opinion, rightly so. They are truly beautiful structures that add something to the landscape rather than detract from it.

Dave P.

...

I partly agree with both you and Geoffrey Palmer!

All three of the viaducts you mention are indeed beautiful structures. But two are set against the enormous backdrop of the Pennines and the other is across a very wide river valley. They are each right for their setting. But, in my opinion, if you put one in the smaller-scale hills and valleys of the Chilterns, such a massive structure would be far too dominant and quite out of place.

[Red Robin]

Originally Posted by Pete Collins

I partly agree with both you and Geoffrey Palmer!

All three of the viaducts you mention are indeed beautiful structures. But two are set against the enormous backdrop of the Pennines and the other is across a very wide river valley. They are each right for their setting. But, in my opinion, if you put one in the smaller-scale hills and valleys of the Chilterns, such a massive structure would be far too dominant and quite out of place.

....The thing though is that the discussion is now getting into the aesthetics of such a structure and that is a very very subjective judgement. It raises the question of just how much these objections to planning decisions are based fundamentally on looks and therefore merely opinion.

There are a couple of new houses being built in my traditional Dorset market town and they have clearly been designed in total sympathy and consideration of the adjacent buildings and are not even an architect's fancy modern 'interpretation'. And yet, the other day a lady passing me on a footpath nearby and seeing me looking commented to me how "horrendous" she thought they were at the very moment I was thinking to myself what a great job was being done in so many aspects. It's all very subjective opinion.

One thing I do know from travelling on many railways and not just in the UK, is that I love train journeys (and plane journeys) because of the views of wonderful countryside from the window. I always go for a window seat.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by pressld2

Spot on Gill! We defeated the Belvedere Energy from Waste Incinerator three times (or was it four - I lost count ) but they kept on coming back with slightly different proposals and starting the whole thing off again until they eventually won the day. And the rubbish it will be burning is from Richmond, Kensington and Wandsworth, the other side of London from us. All three of those boroughs had (and still have) suitable sites for such an incinerator but we in Bexley got labelled the nimbies!

Ha ha yes I came in towards the end of that project..... At least we managed to get much of the land adjacent to the buildings kept as brownfield rubble rather than boring pointless amenity grassland which is usually forced into landscaping for projects like these. Hopefully it will still support the bees and maybe even the ringed plovers. And hopefully that ditch is still free from tyres, mattresses, sofas and purple bacteria?

I do agree though Richmond etc should be disposing of their own waste in their own back yard....

[Paul mabbott]

Here's an example of how high-speed trains can combat plane use (slow loader):
Official Rail Europe Blog, The Train of Thought, European train travel news and advice | Rail Europe - Rail news: High speed rail prompts Ryanair to cut Valencia-Madrid route

So hopefully we can cut Scottish flights with a proper rail link.

[Red Robin]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Here's an example of how high-speed trains can combat plane use (slow loader):
Official Rail Europe Blog, The Train of Thought, European train travel news and advice | Rail Europe - Rail news: High speed rail prompts Ryanair to cut Valencia-Madrid route

So hopefully we can cut Scottish flights with a proper rail link.

....But the big question is how the UK efficiency and rail ticket costs compare with those of most countries in Europe. Unfortunately, rail travel in the UK by comparison also has a bad public image/reputation. I wish it wasn't so, but.

Once upon a time I used to travel on business regularly from London to Newcastle and back by air: Catch a plane shuttle (easy) to arrive in Newcastle for around 10am... Do a day's work... Stay with my client overnight near Hexham... Work the morning... Fly home the next afternoon. I also used to commute weekly to Paris by air for a few months and neither of those journeys would have been so business-time efficient by rail. And I love train journeys!

I'm absolutely not anti flight at all but hopefully the UK rail system can improve and this high speed link may be a step in the right direction.

[Ukwildlifeo]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

I do agree though Richmond etc should be disposing of their own waste in their own back yard....

Dont be daft! They can't do that! After all its more practical to build an airport in the middle of the Thames east of London than to build another runway at Heathrow to the west of London...

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo

Dont be daft! They can't do that! After all its more practical to build an airport in the middle of the Thames east of London than to build another runway at Heathrow to the west of London...

Ahh but that could be a red herring/ diversion to make people more sympathetic to the expansion at Stansted......

[Wild-Woman]

My latest addition of Wild Kent (KWT) has a 2 page spread about the rail and I must say it does make some depressing reading. I can see advantages in rail but sadly this will wreck some very valuable habitats. It's certainly a hard one.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Here's an example of how high-speed trains can combat plane use (slow loader):
Official Rail Europe Blog, The Train of Thought, European train travel news and advice | Rail Europe - Rail news: High speed rail prompts Ryanair to cut Valencia-Madrid route

So hopefully we can cut Scottish flights with a proper rail link.

do many people fly from london to birmingham then ?

the bottom line tho is you dont need a 200 mph (or whatever) train that only stops in london and destination x to cut flights , what you need is a decent and affordable service of normal trains to allow people to travel to and from a multiplicity of places