Stop high speed 2!

[Red Robin]

Originally Posted by eeyore

do many people fly from london to birmingham then ?

the bottom line tho is you dont need a 200 mph (or whatever) train that only stops in london and destination x to cut flights , what you need is a decent and affordable service of normal trains to allow people to travel to and from a multiplicity of places

....Surely the high speed route would extend beyond Birmingham in the future.

I think that both high speed direct and slower 'normal' multiple stop trains are needed.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Red Robin

....Surely the high speed route would extend beyond Birmingham in the future.

I think that both high speed direct and slower 'normal' multiple stop trains are needed.

only if the govt can run to the billions of pounds needed to build an extention - which doesnt look likely in the current climate - in fact HS2 has been described in a leaked treasury memo as a 'vanity project'

you are correct that high speed in the normal sense of the word (ie intercity) routes may be needed in addition to the local services that stop everywhere - but there is no reason why these cannot run on normal lines - building a specific 180mph route at vast cost to allow buisness men to get to brum 40 minuites faster still doesnt look like a great use of money to me

[Red Robin]

Another alternative would be to simply lift the silly 70mph speed limit on roads. Germany does it right.

[Deb London]

The reality of the HS2 was brought home at the weekend when out on a bird walk with the LNHS. We had walked along a railway embankment and delighted in tales of birds past and present. Then someone said that this habitat is likely to disappear if/when the new rail line is built.

Delving a bit deeper I now discover that there is a lot of opposition to the proposed high speed rail interchange, which appears to have been poorly thought out. In January of this year the Deputy Mayor of London spoke to hundreds of residents in the area. This is what he is quoted as saying:

I don't think the business case has been proven, I don't think it's the ideal route, and my family in the West Midlands have never said to me, 'I wish I could get a ticket to Old Oak Common'.

Read More Deputy Mayor says case for HS2 at Old Oak Common is unproven - Local News - News - Fulham Chronicle

In a separate conversation, I was told there was a discussion on LBC radio and people were ridiculing the 25 min reduction in journey time. No one seems to understand the reasoning behind HS2. Me included. All I know is that songbirds are already struggling in that area of London and their plight is set to get a whole lot worse. It'll be a dreadful day if/when the workman finally pick up their tools and set to work.

(PS I'm not a "NIMBY", this is not in my back yard. I just care about wildlife!)

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Deb London

We had walked along a railway embankment and delighted in tales of birds past and present. Then someone said that this habitat is likely to disappear if/when the new rail line is built.

Err, won't you be getting more of this valuable habitat (railway embankments), and a good new wildlife corridor linking in with the existing wildlife corridors, i.e. connecting the Crossrail corridor with the HS2 corridor, not just for humans but also wildlife? Enabling some of the wildlife from the Chilterns AONB to work its way back into London? Short-term it may be disrupting, but long term it is very likely to be beneficial for all.

And isn't much of this work at Old Oak Common actually for Crossrail? It also makes a great deal of sense for the HS2 to link in with Crossrail, to maximise connections across London.
http://www.hounslow.gov.uk/crossrail.pdf Look at all that nice wildlife habitat that it will link in with ...

And a current and proposed pic, and interesting discussion on the links between the train services London Reconnections: Further Explorations at Old Oak Common

Originally Posted by Deb London

In a separate conversation, I was told there was a discussion on LBC radio and people were ridiculing the 25 min reduction in journey time. No one seems to understand the reasoning behind HS2. Me included. All I know is that songbirds are already struggling in that area of London and their plight is set to get a whole lot worse. It'll be a dreadful day if/when the workman finally pick up their tools and set to work.

The train routes northwards are close to capacity at the moment. It makes much more longterm sense to put in new infrastructure than to tinker at the edges with the existing. It will make the commuter routes less congested and therefore better for commuters, and will free up space for freight, so it doesn't end up filling up the roads even more lorries (the M1 is already seriously congested). Long distance travellers will get a much better service. Additionally HS2 to Birmingham is just the first stage of the route - there is a great deal of Britain beyond Birmingham which will eventually be served by the HS2 extensions. And time savings become cumulative. The further north it goes, the more time that will be saved.

[Deb London]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

Err, won't you be getting more of this valuable habitat (railway embankments), and a good new wildlife corridor linking in with the existing wildlife corridors, i.e. connecting the Crossrail corridor with the HS2 corridor, not just for humans but also wildlife? Enabling some of the wildlife from the Chilterns AONB to work its way back into London? Short-term it may be disrupting, but long term it is very likely to be beneficial for all.

And isn't much of this work at Old Oak Common actually for Crossrail? It also makes a great deal of sense for the HS2 to link in with Crossrail, to maximise connections across London.
http://www.hounslow.gov.uk/crossrail.pdf Look at all that nice wildlife habitat that it will link in with ...

And a current and proposed pic, and interesting discussion on the links between the train services London Reconnections: Further Explorations at Old Oak Common



The train routes northwards are close to capacity at the moment. It makes much more longterm sense to put in new infrastructure than to tinker at the edges with the existing. It will make the commuter routes less congested and therefore better for commuters, and will free up space for freight, so it doesn't end up filling up the roads even more lorries (the M1 is already seriously congested). Long distance travellers will get a much better service. Additionally HS2 to Birmingham is just the first stage of the route - there is a great deal of Britain beyond Birmingham which will eventually be served by the HS2 extensions. And time savings become cumulative. The further north it goes, the more time that will be saved.

IMHO this would be very detrimental to the wildlife. A narrow strip of grassland (supporting finch and pipit communities) would become narrower. The wildlife communities on the embankment eliminated overnight. Yes, no doubt in the long term there could be replanting/regrowth. But at what loss to the wildlife already there. Sorry but I'm really not convinced. All the interesting wildlife tempted into London would arrive, take one look at the tiny bit of now very much reduced and therefore overused recreational land and begger off back to whence it came.

I used to travel via Birmingham quite a bit and I would never have considered a journey via Old Oak Common. It's actually laughable. Yes, I'm only one person. With one opinion. I may well be proven wrong and fatal accidents on the M1/M6 (or other routes) virtually eliminated overnight. But I doubt it.

But at least you can see the good in all this Sheffield Lass. It's good to be optimistic. And I will keep an open mind, as by nature I too am an optimist.

[MattPrince]

HS2 is too expensive to build, and will be costed out of reach for all but those who value 40 minutes of their day very highly.

So its intended for suits. Who are already getting comfortable with Video Conferencing which will have evolved even further by the time this white elephant gets into use (if it ever does). So why bother travelling when you can use Office Communicator 2025?

Basically its a waste of money.

If you want to go really fast.. use a pulse of information, that's where the money should be going, into a world class communication infrastructure.

Moving people about is so 20th century.

[Red Robin]

Originally Posted by MattPrince

HS2 is too expensive to build, and will be costed out of reach for all but those who value 40 minutes of their day very highly.

So its intended for suits. Who are already getting comfortable with Video Conferencing which will have evolved even further by the time this white elephant gets into use (if it ever does). So why bother travelling when you can use Office Communicator 2025?

Basically its a waste of money.

If you want to go really fast.. use a pulse of information, that's where the money should be going, into a world class communication infrastructure.

Moving people about is so 20th century.

....Very good point, and a very fundamental one too

I've forgotten whether this thread is about a new high speed train or a new high speed line (I'm travelling through life too fast to read it!). If it's a line, then there's a strong case for speeding up the transport of goods rather than people.

[Ukwildlifeo]

The nearest equivalent scheme in Europe is not encouraging to say the least:

High-speed rail: A £250m lesson for Britain's rail enthusiasts - Telegraph

Its going to be an expensive white elephant!

[htcdude]

Originally Posted by Red Robin

If it's a line, then there's a strong case for speeding up the transport of goods rather than people.

That's the problem with this country, everything has to be done yesterday. Get more money, more quickly. People need to just chill out a bit and take it slow, enjoy this country and not worry about earning another quick buck.

Nige