Badger Cull

[hairy]

Badger Culls look like it could be a countdown to extinction?

On 15th December 2005 the British Government announced a twelve week
'public consultation period' to consider whether and how to kill Badgers.

Many people consider that this consultation is a sham to soften our
response to what has already been decided - a mass slaughter of a
‘protected’ native wildlife species.

Leading organisations including the RSPCA and the Wildlife Trusts
have already voiced their opposition, but only a massive public response
can prevent the killing.

It would also be helpful if you would encourage everyone you know to
support the Badgers at this critical time. Please forward a copy of this message to
anyone who may care enough to help.

On behalf of Britain's Badgers - thank you


Roger

[pheonix]

as you state it is only being considered?
i know someone who works for warwick university who has been doing research into Badgers spreading tb for six years, and she has not yet heard of anything actually happening in the way of Badger culling.
how can you stop something that hasnt started yet?....

[hairy]

Hi Sadly researchers are not necessarily kept up to date with the work of other researchers or government plans.

how can you stop something that hasnt started yet?.... you ask.
That's what the 'consultation' is about. I presume that you don't know how to bring dead Badgers back to life after they've been killed- so this needs to be stopped BEFORE it is done.

I don't believe everything I read in the press, but perhaps your friend may be interested in this from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/

Environment
By Charles Clover, Environment Editor

A Badger
Badgers: Cull planned

Animal to watch: The Badger. The great Badger cull, which could happen as early as June, promises to test the mettle of Ben Bradshaw, the animal welfare minister. The Government decided this month to back the slaughter of Badgers in English counties badly affected by bovine tuberculosis, in combination with the pre-movement testing of cattle. The bill is likely to be £2 billion over the next decade.

The cull is expected to be carried out by farmers with the carbon monoxide from their own tractor exhausts. Animal welfare groups may be expected to challenge the strategy in court after the consultation ends in March.

regards

Roger

[Fourwings]

Ah - good old DEFRA, how is it whenever something bad looms on the horizon for British wildlife this pack of jokers have something to do with it.

Instead of going along with the age-old idea of blaming the Badger for the spread of bovine TB maybe they should look a bit closer to home.

In the wake of the last outbreak of Foot & Mouth, which was made far worse by their slow response in the initial stages of outbreak, they sanctioned the export of cows/beast from known TB hotspots in the South-West to areas decimated by the disease ie areas of the North midlands,Cumbria etc... and now suprise suprise its these areas that have an increasing problem with bovine TB, but hey, it's much easier to blame Badgers!!

As for the theory that Badgers spread TB, yes, you have to conceed that they do play a part in the spread of the disease as does anything else that moves around the countryside, infact, a few years ago a senior ministry of agriculture vet told me that he was convinced that hikers/walkers played a huge part in the spread of the disease.

So whats next? is DEFRA going to have everyone who ventures out into our wonderful countryside gassed???? :

[nightshade]

hello fourwings,what countyside and which users would that be?,the one the current government hate so much that they are probably stockpiling the gas now!

[NigelP]

Sorry to be a spanner in the works here. Admittedly Badgers are beautiful creatures but why shouldn't they be culled, lets face it they are not endangered to any extent and the problems they cause are manifold. They should be left to live in places where they cause no problems, no one wants to eradicate them but wildlife lovers seem to place the Badger on a pedestal and worship them, or treat them like the holy grail. Lets get some perspective here wildlife has been managed by humans for hundreds if not thousands of years, it needs to continue. Sorry my first post is a contreversial one.

[wildone]

NigelP Could you please give some of the manifold problems you say that Badgers cause. Thanks

[Fourwings]

I must admit, I've seen many a good Maize crop ruined or seriously damaged by Badgers, plus I've seen what they can do to a lawn in pursuit of worms & flower beds in pursuit of Tulip bulbs.

Hope this proves that I'm not biased towards the Badger, I just wish DEFRA & the powers that be would examine all avenues before they embark on such a destructive path!

[Words]

Having read through the consultation document and followed some of the other links, I must admit that the evidence for a cull looks thin and is driven by cost. From what I can tell, the likelihood of a significant reduction in cattle contracting bovine TB as a result of a cull is very uncertain indeed, especially as it won't be consistently implemented. The chances are it will simply move the problem elsewhere. Interesting also to note the low incidence of bovine TB in Badgers (around 80% are clear according to some research).

I'm in favour of the alternatives proposed by the RSPCA of:

• post-movement testing of cattle;

• quarantine arrangements for cattle moved from farm to farm;

• financial assistance to farmers to implement these and other measures to tackle bovine TB.

[NigelP]

Originally Posted by wildone

NigelP Could you please give some of the manifold problems you say that Badgers cause. Thanks

Damage
Damage to lawns
Badgers are an adaptable species and are good at exploiting the range of foods available in urban areas. Not least among these is the food specifically put out for them by householders. However, they also eat invertebrates and may dig shallow pits in lawns when foraging. This is often what brings Badgers into conflict with householders. Earthworms are mostly taken from the surface of the ground but, during dry conditions, damage to the turf can occur. The presence of insect larvae such as those of cockchafer and crane-fly (leatherjackets) can damage a lawn and may also attract Badgers. Rooting by Badgers to feed on these larvae can make an existing problem worse. This kind of damage is usually short-lived and likely to be most pronounced in late Autumn and early Spring. Additional problems can be experienced when Badger latrines (dung pits), which are used to mark the boundaries of territories, are sited in gardens.

Damage to fruits and vegetables
Badgers are particularly partial to strawberries and raspberries and may damage soft fruit crops. They have been known to break the lower branches of fruit trees whilst feeding on apples, pears and plums, and they also eat vegetables such as potatoes, carrots and sweetcorn. Even flower bulbs may be dug up and eaten.

Raiding of dustbins
Badgers will often over-turn dustbins in their search for food, especially during hot, dry summers when other sources of food may be limited.

Damage to structures
Badger setts can be large, with extensive tunnel systems. When excavated beneath structures such as buildings, roads or fences, there may be a risk of subsidence. There is also potential for damage to electrical cabling and other services. Advice should be sought from Defra at an early stage if Badger activity appears to be causing damage to a structure. In cases where serious damage is being or is likely to be caused, action that affects the sett may be allowed under a licence from Defra.

Damage to agricultural land ie. digging setts into bankings, out into the field causing weak spots and therefore causing a danger to machinery working on the land. Damage to crops etc.

The TB situation, although this is QED.

[NigelP]

Originally Posted by fourwings

So whats next? is DEFRA going to have everyone who ventures out into our wonderful countryside gassed????

OK so this maybe a little extreme but can I nominate rambling groups to be first they tramp roughshod all over the place treating it like their own playground especially now they have the CROW act as an excuse. OK rant over, please accept my apologies

[nightshade]

I agree with Words, these quick fixes achieve nothing; culls do not appear to be thought out just another panicky reaction, the RSPCA do seem to offer a sensible alternative however.
Incidently I went out to bring in a car that had been in collision with a Badger, the Badger was killed the car was later written off!
There was a tale of Badgers being killed then the bodies being thrown onto the road so that the cars destroyed the evidence.
It is a high profile animal despite its secretive nature, beloved by nature lovers, despised by others, a high profile cull is senseless.

[hairy]

it's good to hear from someone who knows better that the RSPCA, Wildlife Trusts, Professor John Bourne, etc, etc!!!!!!!!!??????

If any species deserves to be culled for causing 'manifold problems' it must be the one that continues to breed in uncontrolled numbers with no regard for the finite resources of the planet whose ecosystem they are slowly but surely destroying.

Perhaps NigelP would care to share his superior knowledge of Meles meles with us, and tell us more about the manifold problems, and where he proposes that they are left to live 'where they cause no problems'

'Why shouldn't they be culled?'
Why not kill all wildlife?
And all non-crop plants (weeds)?
And whatever else gets in the way of profit?

The european Badger, Meles meles, is thought to be in overall decline. Britain is perhaps its last stronghold.

I am puzzled why someone with NigelP's views should belong to an e-group like this one - perhaps he could share that info with us too.

Roger

Sorry NigelP, but ........






Hands off our native wildlife!!!!!

No more Badger killing!

[NigelP]

I am puzzled why someone with NigelP's views should belong to an e-group like this one - perhaps he could share that info with us too.

I joined this group as I love wildlife and watching it in its natural habitat pure and simple, but I also live in the real world.
I don't hold the wildlife I see as something which is there to entertain homo sapiens. All to many people now seem to have lost sight of the fact that all animal and plant life are lower down the food chain and/or evolutionary chain than humans, Man is at the top and therefore is in "charge" as it were. Many people who I come across now seem to view animals in anthropomorphic terms, I think they've watched too many Disney films,how do you rationalise with people who advertise their pups for sale as "boys and girls" as opposed to "dogs and bitches".
I am born and bred a countryman I appreciate the wildlife around me but I also understand the need for control. The only reason I replied to this Badger thread was simply because of the false idolisation applied to this animal as though it were sacred. I have no problem with Meles meles per se but I know it does cause problems and where it does, control of some form is needed.

I'm withdrawing from this debate simply so as not to cause a flame war, I'm sure members don't want to go down that road.

I'm sorry cornwallbadgers but....get over it that not every nature lover is a fully paid up member of the "oochy coochie brigade".

[NigelP]

And whatever else gets in the way of profit?

I'm sorry I must have missed this comment.
Farming IS the countryside, everyone wants food and cheap food at that. Farmers that make huge profits are more endangered than any other species, most farmers make only enough to "get by". For those who say "well sell up and get a proper job", its not that simple, farming is a way of life not just a job.
People seem to think the countryside is a playground for them to visit at weekends and holidays well it's not it's a work place. The countryside doesn't look like it does just by chance, it's a well managed place. FWAG does sterling work with farmers to encourage wildlife but everything needs management it doesn't just happen.

[hairy]

For those who say "well sell up and get a proper job", its not that simple, farming is a way of life not just a job.

Tell that to the coal miners, etc, etc, etc


Farming IS the countryside, everyone wants food and cheap food at that.

Cheap? FACT: In 2004-5, livestock farmers will get £1.3 billion in subsidies. Dairy farmers will get £100 million in subsidies.

[hairy]

I'm withdrawing from this debate simply
because I don't want to really understand the issues??
It's so much simpler just to 'remove' anything in the way.

We could go on about the declines in umpteen aspects of our natural heritage that are attributable to those that believe they are the guardians of the countryside - but is there any point? At least at european level the emphasis seems to be moving away from production based subsidies.

"NATURE MUST BE CONTROLLED"

Hands up those that are arrogant enough to believe that this is possible.

Fortunately not all 'countrymen' or farmers are stuck in the past.

[NigelP]

As I stated before I am withdrawing from this debate as it is going nowhere other than degenerating into a flame war. Besides single issue fanatics such as cornwallbadgers seems to be, cannot be reasoned with.

End of debate as far as I am concerned.

It seems to me that you only joined this forum to further your cause and to promote your website, your first post being the one that started this thread.

[hairy]

So sorry for starting a thread about a native British mammal on a UK wildlife forum!

[NigelP]

So you wasn't being alarmist and overstating things a little with the first line of your post then!

Countdown to extinction?

So sorry for starting a thread about a native British mammal on a UK wildlife forum!

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Goodnight

[StuartDH]

OK guys, neutral corners - keep it clean and above the belt.

It's only natural that these sort of topics get a bit heated and to be honest, we quite like that, but make sure that things don't get too personal, sarcastic, flippant etc - it only goes to spoil a good debate.

Remember, that we usually only learn from those people that disagree with us.

P.S. Isn't today a bank holiday? In my books that means it's still Christmas - goodwill to all men and all that. Kickback and enjoy the break, work doesn't start again until tomorrow

[nightshade]

NigelP thank you very much for putting a well reasoned point of view,please do not let the strength of feeling of someone equally devoted to another cause put you off using this site

[hairy]

Question ?

Not a statement !

[hairy]

Originally Posted by NigelP

I joined this group as I love wildlife and watching it in its natural habitat pure and simple

For a peek at NigelP and his mates true colours have a look at http://thehuntinglife.com/forums/ind...showtopic=5045

[nightshade]

Cornwallbadgers,I think that you are getting too intense on a website with a wider brief as regards wildlife.You have made a point and given people food for thought and links to dedicated Badger sites for anyone wanting to assist in your fight