New Welsh Badger Cull

[Springer5]

Originally Posted by Eryri

I don't think that cows 'suffer' under good farming practice, and I'm happy to eat butter, cheese, and beef. I also think that this is fine, regardless of whether someone is in favour of culling to control bTB. or not. I enjoy pork, lamb and goats cheese, too.

Then I'm sorry Eryri, but you are a hypocrite. That is not intended to be an insult for the sake of it, it is simply an objective description of your behaviour as defined in any decent dictionary. i.e. someone who preaches one way, but behaves in contradiction to their own words.

You express concern about cows suffering, but now, finally, after being asked the same question 3 times (which in itself indicates some reluctance to "own up"), you admit that you are part of the cause of it.
You then try to argue that there is no suffering with "good husbandry" in order to make what you do ok in your own head, but anyone who has studied the subject objectively knows that all dairy cows suffer to one extent or another by the very nature of the fact that they are being used and exploited.

Regardless of what you "believe" you are simply incorrect and I can prove that you are incorrect. Ask yourself a question and depending upon the answer you will know whether you are...

1 - a hypocrite
2 - a delusionist

What if this were to happen in the future (who knows, one day it might)....

A technologically vastly superior (but not very nice) species has come to earth and forced you (along with the rest of us) into subjegation, decided that they like the taste of human milk and therefore bred and manipulated our women for that pupose, "disposing" of the male human babies as unwanted byproducts, treating the women like breeding machines and removing their children as early as possible so that they can "harvest" the womens milk. In order to get more mlik they have bred and rebred our women so that they produce more and more milk, but inevitably even though it is unintentional the women have developed physical problems; lameness, mastitis, stomach problems from the nutrient-rich food they are fed, and so on. Each time they are about to stop producing milk, they make the women pregnant again so that they will start all over again, remove their babies at birth, slaughter the male babies, raise the female babies to get pregnant and produce their own milk as soon as their young bodies can begin to cope with it, and harvest the milk again from their mothers and so on, and on and on, for their entire milk-producing lives.

Unknown to you, who as a male has been taken away and is awaiting slaughter, some aliens are arguing. One of them says that what they're doing is wrong because we humans are suffering, but the other one says that as long the aliens are nice to us he (mystically) "knows" that we're actually perfectly happy and not suffering at all. besides, he like a bit a cheese with his supper so it's all worth it (easy for HIM to say).

Which alien do you think would be morally correct Eyryi? Would you like all the female members of your family and friends carry on producing the cheese for his supper, or would you like the first alien to win the argument and free us all? You may not be able to understand their language, and so liisten to the argument itself, but one day one of them will find you and either shoot you or set you free, which would YOU prefer.

It's a muliple choice and the answers are...

a - continued expoitation as described, for all your family generations forever
b - freedom to live as you choose.
c - refuse to answer so that you can carry on living in your selfish little bubble without having to defend your position.

The choice is yours (which is more than can be said for the real cows).
(1st time of asking)

[Eryri]

Aliens ????

I've seen that film, excellent entertainment.
Have my own theory on the size of Sigourney Weavers' breasts.

[shagbat]

Excellent analogy Springer,
virtually every other commercially farmed animal/fowl, suffers a similar prospect, except for the milk thing.
I'm sure if they could make hens lactate, they would!

[Bumblebeebob]

Originally Posted by Eryri

Did you know that tens of thousands of possum are culled every year as they are the major transmission vector of bTB in New Zealand ?

Possums aren't even indigenous to New Zealand but were introduced in 1837.Another catastrophe caused by humans meddling with nature, with Possums being the losers as is per usual with any wildlife it appears.

[Springer5]

Originally Posted by Eryri

Aliens ????

I've seen that film, excellent entertainment.
Have my own theory on the size of Sigourney Weavers' breasts.

Ahhh. now that's as good an admission as I need that you have no sensible "defence" to offer.

Case closed. Send him down.

[Springer5]

Originally Posted by Eryri

Aliens ????

I've seen that film, excellent entertainment.
Have my own theory on the size of Sigourney Weavers' breasts.

(Sigh!) Classic behaviour of someone whos intelligent argument has just run out.

That's as good an admission as I need (and hopefully everyone else reading this thread) that you have no sensible "defence" to offer.

Your comments have been hypocritical all along, as I have said, and are now just absurd and childish. I am trying to have an ADULT discussion with you in which I have offered you an almost identical theoretical analogy of the way people such as yourself treat (or provide cause for the treatment of) cows, except with you on the receiving end of it and your response says it all.

I have genuinely tried to give you every chance to defend your double standards with regard to your attitude towards other animals (cows in particular in this case) and you have failed miserably to justify your immoral behaviour and self-contradictions.

You have offered no defence for the way you are behaving. You are part of the cause of suffering in cows because...

1 - you can
2 - you like what it gives you

Your thoughts go no further than that. You know it, I know it, and now everyone reading this thread knows it.

Because I genuinely had wanted to give you a chance to explain why you claim that what you are complicite in is ok, given what is a very serious subject (for the cows at least), and allowing for the possibility that you may be have intended to post again with more sensible comments after we had all split our sides in response to your witticisms, I will give you one more chance to answer the question like an adult (assuming you are one - children are also allowed on this forum I believe).
(2nd time of asking)

Otherwise you are guilty as charged, and any other posts you make about bTB and what's "best" for cows must be regarded (or more to the point disregarded) in the light of your as yet undefended hypocrisy.

You are someone who lives in a glass house throwing stones at badgers.

[Springer5]

Originally Posted by Bumblebeebob

Possums aren't even indigenous to New Zealand but were introduced in 1837.Another catastrophe caused by humans meddling with nature, with Possums being the losers as is per usual with any wildlife it appears.

Good answer.

[Eryri]

Originally Posted by Springer5

(Sigh!) Classic behaviour of someone whos intelligent argument has just run out.

That's as good an admission as I need (and hopefully everyone else reading this thread) that you have no sensible "defence" to offer.

Your comments have been hypocritical all along, as I have said, and are now just absurd and childish. I am trying to have an ADULT discussion with you in which I have offered you an almost identical theoretical analogy of the way people such as yourself treat (or provide cause for the treatment of) cows, except with you on the receiving end of it and your response says it all.

I have genuinely tried to give you every chance to defend your double standards with regard to your attitude towards other animals (cows in particular in this case) and you have failed miserably to justify your immoral behaviour and self-contradictions.

You have offered no defence for the way you are behaving. You are part of the cause of suffering in cows because...

1 - you can
2 - you like what it gives you

Your thoughts go no further than that. You know it, I know it, and now everyone reading this thread knows it.

Because I genuinely had wanted to give you a chance to explain why you claim that what you are complicite in is ok, given what is a very serious subject (for the cows at least), and allowing for the possibility that you may be have intended to post again with more sensible comments after we had all split our sides in response to your witticisms, I will give you one more chance to answer the question like an adult (assuming you are one - children are also allowed on this forum I believe).
(2nd time of asking)

Otherwise you are guilty as charged, and any other posts you make about bTB and what's "best" for cows must be regarded (or more to the point disregarded) in the light of your as yet undefended hypocrisy.

You are someone who lives in a glass house throwing stones at badgers.

I do not share your 'vegan' lifestyle and am happy to eat beef, cheese, butter and milk.

I also have no problem with 'best of practice' cattle husbandry, and have no intention of engaging a discussion with you on your self imposed dietary restrictions. If you do not want to eat meat and dairy products, that's fine. I have chosen to make myself a cheese sandwich and have a latte coffee. Perhaps you should start another thread to discuss the merits of a cattle product free diet, but this discussion thread is about the proposed badger cull in Wales to eradicate bTB. There are no proposals in Wales to prevent consumption of dairy produce, regardless of the methods used to tackle bTB.

[Springer5]

Originally Posted by Eryri

I also have no problem with 'best of practice' cattle husbandry, and have no intention of engaging a discussion with you on your self imposed dietary restrictions

LOL !!

More of the same avoidance of my question there then.
I assume that when you say "have no intention" (it's easier to pretend that isn't it) you actually mean "have no defence" for your hypocrisy, which you still have yet to address, and always will have for the rest of your life, as it stands now. From now on I shall be only to happy to remind you of your double-standards on this forum whenever you make false claims about what's best for animals (even allowing for your ludicrous assertion that good husbandry miraculously cures everything, including cows having virgin births I suppose, or perhaps lactating without the need to become pregnant etc, etc as long a the husbandry is good..... - do you really believe that? - of course you don't)

Originally Posted by Eryri

....this discussion thread is about the proposed badger cull in Wales to eradicate bTB.

Regardless of what the discussion thread was about, you made a statement in this thread that clearly did not "add up" with what you have revealed about yourself in past posts. If you don't think a particular issue is pertinent to a thread, why did you make a statement about it?
You implied concern over the suffering of cows, that was YOUR post. I have merely tried to seek clarification on why you should be so concerned given your own "suffering causing" lifestyle.
If you can't back somethng up Eyryi (which clearly you haven't in this case) don't say it and you won't get your fingers burned. It's not the first time you've done it as far as I am concerned. You are full of "advice" about what other individuals - mostly non-human ones who can't contradict you (eg badgers and bTB/suffering cows to get back to the thread) need to do to resolve problems, but continue to behave as though you yourself are blameless.

I will remind you of your hypocrisy frequently from now on because as long as it continues, your statements about the "price" badgers must pay for your lifestyle carry no weight and need to be disregarded by everyone. Perhaps you should insist on culling yourself - no customer = no dairy industry = no related suffering/diseases = no problem, for anyone. It's true whether you like it/admit it or not.

Choose you words more carefully in future and don't pretend a morality which you clearly don't posess.

[Eryri]

Originally Posted by Springer5

If you don't think a particular issue is pertinent to a thread, why did you make a statement about it?
You implied concern over the suffering of cows, that was YOUR post. I have merely tried to seek clarification on why you should be so concerned given your own "suffering causing" lifestyle.

It is quite simple. One method to prevent cattle catching bTB from badgers is to rear cows inside buildings in crates. Such buildings can be made badger proof, and feed sterilised so they don't get to eat natural grass. My view is that this method of rearing cattle does cause suffering in the animal. I therefore contend that those who argue against tackling bTB in the wild badger population are ignoring the suffering that would result in cattle by not doing so. As you know wild boar is being culled in the Forest of Dean to protect the habitat of other animals and deer are regularly culled throughout to UK to maintain habitat. You will also be aware that many species are culled as pests in urban areas, and most notable, is the culling of rabbits and other wild herbivores to allow arable farming. No doubt the grain you eat was farmed on land purged of wild species for agriculture. I therefore do not accept that a 'vegan' diet absolves yourself of responsibility for culling, unless of course your food consumption is wholly gathered from ancient woodland.