New Welsh Badger Cull

[Eryri]

Originally Posted by GavinWheeler

I totally reject the idea that speaking welsh either causes or justifies illiteracy in English.

A bit off topic, but can I just point out that my mother did not have a very good command of English but was very accomplished in Welsh.
Would you have considered her 'illiterate' ?

[Eryri]

Originally Posted by GavinWheeler

Not quite true - we are accountable to both the UK as a whole, the EU and on some issues we are probably accountable to international bodies. Marine law? I don't know enough law to be certain.

As I understand it, Scotland can make their own laws in devolved areas such as Rural Affairs, a devolved matter, by way of primary legislation, and they are not 'accountable' to Westminster for these laws. Unlike Scotland, Wales currently has to seek a 'Legislative Competence Order' to do so, if a measure is in conflict with previous Westminster statute, although Rural Affairs in Wales is devolved. However, things may change as we have a referendum in 2011.This referendum will decide whether the Senedd can pass primary legislation without being 'accountable' to Westminster, in areas of devolved matters. All parts of the EU are subject to matters of EU legislation, regardless of constitutional set-up within or between member states.

[Eryri]

Originally Posted by GavinWheeler

Taking a group of responses that were 84% against and winnowing it down to a subgroup that was 80% in favour - and only quoting that last statistic - is very dubious behaviour in anybody's book. Well, anybody other than you, it would seem!

The responses were published on the Welsh Government website.

The original categorising of 'for' and 'against' and who they are and where they're from was originally done by the BBC after examination of the responses, on the date of publication/disclosure. The issue of how many were for and against were from Wales as opposed to residents outside Wales is a human interest issue for news journalists as the responses do back up claims that there is a marked difference of opinion between responses from inside Wales than elsewhere. The Minister for Rural Affairs, nor myself instructs, or have control over the BBC, or any other press or media, in how they 'categorise' the responses.

If anyone on WAB wants to do other 'categorisations' feel free do so.
Responses are published here.

[GavinWheeler]

Originally Posted by Eryri

A bit off topic, but can I just point out that my mother did not have a very good command of English but was very accomplished in Welsh.
Would you have considered her 'illiterate' ?

I've never met the woman, and my only information about her comes from someone who not only claimed that (for example) badger trapping cages need to be 'incinerated' (burnt to ashes) after a single use, but actually tried to defend that claim when it was pointed out to him that he was being silly.

So I would only say that in general anyone who cannot read or write English to a reasonable adult standard would arguably be considered 'illiterate in English.' Furthermore, if (for example) welsh language schools regularly turned out students who arrived on the job market without a reasonable standard of English literacy, that would provide a strong argument against WAG's support of the welsh language. Which I, for one, would deeply regret.

Re: Wales' 'accountability' to other countries.

Whatever the result of the referendum next year, we remain accountable to the UK, the EU and the international community. For example Wales has a duty not to bring the UK as a whole into disrepute, and could be held accountable if anything we were doing seemed to do so. Likewise we could be held accountable by the EU court of human rights if anything we are doing (such as forcing entry onto private land to slaughter badgers) were seen to be in breach of EU civil liberties legislation.

I don't want to get tied up on this issue, but jingoistic propaganda that Wales will do what the h*ll it wants to regardless of anyone else only serves to make Wales look immature. We, like any nation, are accountable to others.

Originally Posted by Eryri

If anyone on WAB wants to do other 'categorisations' feel free do so.
Responses are published here.

..where you will see that the vast majority of responses were opposed to the cull. Yet the pro-cull lobbyists often claimed the opposite.

QED

[Eryri]

Originally Posted by GavinWheeler

So I would only say that in general anyone who cannot read or write English to a reasonable adult standard would arguably be considered 'illiterate in English.' Furthermore, if (for example) welsh language schools regularly turned out students who arrived on the job market without a reasonable standard of English literacy, that would provide a strong argument against WAG's support of the welsh language. Which I, for one, would deeply regret.

Your example does not exist.
In Wales, the pass rate for English GCSE in Welsh medium schools in Wales is higher than the pass rate of the same GCSE in English medium schools.

A debate rages between whether this is due to the multi-lingual environment stimulating language ability in its own right, or whether this is because it's because it's the pushy parents who sent their children to Welsh medium schools, and this is a reflection of that. What is clear is that literacy rates in all European countries are highest in multi-lingual education systems. Wales performs worse than England as a whole in all measures of education standards and always has. However, Wales has a comparable performance to NE England, and most pundits agree this is due to relative economic prosperity and it's influence on education. The performance of Welsh medium schools of the state sector in Wales is comparable to the performance of private sector schools in England. It's also a reason why Welsh medium schools are 'over-subscribed'.

I thank you for adding the qualification the 'in Englsih' attribute to your statement.

[Eryri]

Originally Posted by GavinWheeler

Whatever the result of the referendum next year, we remain accountable to the UK,

No. To give an example of the effect of 'accountability' to the UK government of part 4 of the Government of Wales Act, we would need to look at the Megarahi decision in Scotland. Unlike Wales, the criminal justice system in Scotland is NOT accountable to the UK government, although all parts of the UK are subject to EU law. If there is a 'yes' vote in our referendum next year it will give Wales primary independence on devolved issues, and this includes matters that fall into the remit of the Minister for Rural Affairs. The minister will be accountable under EU law, but not the minister in London. It is this the nature of this change that requires a referendum.

[Eryri]

I see that Defra in England have just published Comparing badger (Meles meles) control strategies for reducing bovine bTB in cattle in England.

Their modelling suggests that the best way to control bTB in badgers is culling and to simultaneously vaccinate badgers in a ring around the cull area.

"It is important to note that the control strategies tested in this modelling study are not equal in either the area managed or the effort deployed, so comparisons between the proposed strategies must be made in context and with caution. Specifically, while the combined culling plus ring vaccination appeared better than either culling-only or vaccination-only, the area over which control was applied, and therefore the effort deployed, was about twice as large for this combined strategy as for the latter two. So it would be incorrect to assume that a combined strategy is better per-se than either single strategy. "

Obviously, this does not apply to the IAA in Wales as it's impossible to vaccinate badgers in the Irish sea, or on the upper reaches of the Preseli mountains, as there are no significant numbers of badgers in these areas.