Please sign palm oil petition

squeek · #1 (**permalink**) 21-11-2009, 04:57 PM

www.gopetition.com/petitions/say-yes-to-orangutan-friendly-palm-oil.html?utm_medium=RSS

Palm oil is in most foods , shampoos toothpastes.

we will be responsible for the extinction of the orangutan if we dont act now.

i will not buy anything with it in (knowingly) i read labels.

your xmas pud and mince pies contain it.

complain to your supermarkets

thankyou

loripo · #2 (**permalink**) 21-11-2009, 09:29 PM

I looked up Palm Oil - sneaky - they just label it Vegetable oil. Surely we don't need to ship in vast amounts of this, when we can get sunflower and olive oil, or even rapeseed.

squeek · #3 (**permalink**) 22-11-2009, 02:48 AM

hi loripo,
its just not right, im so angry this is still going on, so many have campaigned over the years. experts have pointed out the dangers.
i mean what did we used to use, probably vegetable oil.
my mum got a xmas pud today from holland and barratt and amazing, it has no palm oil, it is made with vegetable oil.

i think this palm oil thing has got out of hand !
bet money is at the root of it all, usually is

posie · #4 (**permalink**) 22-11-2009, 03:28 AM

I agree.Why do we need Palm Oil at all? Well, we don't, but the people who live where Palms grow, probably have no other income.
Maybe the other countries, including ours, should give them money, in order to save the O.A.'s We could give them an income NOT to cut the Palms, instead of giving them money FOR the Palm Oil.You cannot just stop them using the palms for their income, if there is no alternative income. Mind you, I suppose we could shoot the people, and save the animals.

I don't know why they can't grow opiate drugs, and mess up many of the younger generation in this country(and elsewhere)they could grow it on the land already cleared of palms.

ChrisR · #5 (**permalink**) 22-11-2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posie

I agree.Why do we need Palm Oil at all? Well, we don't, but the people who live where Palms grow, probably have no other income.

I think the main problem is that we do need the oils ... well, I suppose it depends how you define 'need' but it is used a lot ... so much so that if we didn't use Palm Oil then they would try to get vegetable oil from some other source. The big problem with Palm Oil is that it needs a huge area of land to grow in - the trees can't be cropped close together - and each tree yields very little oil. This means that small farmers can't grow it and it tends to be a crop of very large, rich landowners. So, I think the best solution would be for someone to invest some money in researching ways to make Palm Oil trees more eco-friendly - ie. higher cropping yields per hectare.

posie · #6 (**permalink**) 22-11-2009, 01:02 PM

Yes Chris, palms probably do belong to rich landowners, but the not-so-rich locals do rely on the work. I agree with you that to go the 'more eco-friendly route' is one way to go, but time is running short for the O.A.s ,and that will take time, time that they have not got....You say we do need palm oil, are you saying that there is not an alternative oil to use, I know it has special properties, but maybe research for an alternative would be sensible.Does anyone know the nationalities of the landowners, are they native to the areas, or are they Businessmen who have bought up the land for obvious reasons. Maybe our Government could buy them out in the most threatened region, and manage it with compassion to the O.A.s, or if not our government, then a private person with more money than he knows what to do with.Now I'm rambling, sorry.. .....Posie....

dickybird · #7 (**permalink**) 22-11-2009, 02:27 PM

i hadnt realised that palm oil can be 'disguised' as vegetable oil in labelling. perhaps this could be changed so that we at least know what we are buying and can make an informed choice?

dickybird

ChrisR · #8 (**permalink**) 22-11-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posie

You say we do need palm oil, are you saying that there is not an alternative oil to use, I know it has special properties, but maybe research for an alternative would be sensible.

Well, I have to admit that I'm not an expert on palm oils and their uses but if the world uses large volumes of palm oil in so many different applications then there is definitely a need for oils like that.

If they stopped producing palm oil (highly unlikely considering the many vested interests in maintaining the crop - I am betting that if we stopped buying it then most of Asia wouldn't) then the demand for vegetable oils would still exist. So we'd have to find another way of producing them, which would take up yet more land.

So, we have a few problems ... we can argue against the massive destruction of rainforest by palm oil farmers - that sounds justified. But we have to offer them an alternative otherwise they won't listen to us and they will keep cutting the forest anyway. A high-yield palm-oil might help this but then again greedy farmers might continue to cut the forest to make yet more palm oil.

One of the big problems is that in developing countries the level of corruption is massive and concepts of 'nature reserves' are very flexible. Pay-off the right people and the rich will always find a way to cut down more forest, until they are given a profitable reason why they shouldn't.

squeek · #9 (**permalink**) 22-11-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posie

I agree.Why do we need Palm Oil at all? Well, we don't, but the people who live where Palms grow, probably have no other income.
Maybe the other countries, including ours, should give them money, in order to save the O.A.'s We could give them an income NOT to cut the Palms, instead of giving them money FOR the Palm Oil.You cannot just stop them using the palms for their income, if there is no alternative income. Mind you, I suppose we could shoot the people, and save the animals.

I don't know why they can't grow opiate drugs, and mess up many of the younger generation in this country(and elsewhere)they could grow it on the land already cleared of palms.

hi posie, i just read that indigenous people have been crushed out of existence (in a 2006 newspaper article)so palm oil doesnt seem to have done them any favours.

posie · #10 (**permalink**) 22-11-2009, 07:18 PM

Well Squeek, I've started doing something that I think is constructive, well it might not work, but at least it is something I can do. I am asking any Very Rich people that I know,(some of whom don't know what to do with their money,) if they would all get together and try and buy out at least some of the 'landowners', so that they will then a) be able to farm that little bit in a way that is more sympathetic to the O.A.s, and b)so that they may be able to influence the other 'landowners' to do the same. I presume that 'we' dont have anybody over there in any sort of influential position, this as I see it is obviously not helping our cause......Ever Hopeful for Change.....Posie..