Against WAB endorsing bloodsports

[Boddie]

Originally Posted by Polecat

Thankyou for the trouble taken in your replies.

Allowing pro-fishing threads in the 'water life' forum is what I mean regarding WAB having its own forum. This is then further degenerated by the allowing of adverts for fishing on those pages.

running another, bigger forum, i do know how difficult it is to keep the integrity of a site intact.......with interests of members conflicting and running costs to bear in mind.

No matter that fishing is legal, it is cruel to that particular form of wildlife.

I find myself feeling hypocritical just by having my thread, which could be about the 3 hours it took me to save a mouse, next to one that endorses killing a fish for fun.......in fact it makes me feel horrible............

And my interest must be different in substance to the ethos of this site. I want to be a member of a forum that does NOT welcome a pro- discussion on grouse shooting, pheasant shooting, Rabbit shooting, fishing etc....any form of blood sport....even if it's legal to do so in Britain.

I guess you've already made your mind up.

[StuartDH]

Polecat has PM'ed me to make his account inactive, which I've now done, so unfortunately he will no longer be able to reply to any forum posts.

As I mentioned earlier, Wild About Britain will continue to present all opinions from every angle of British wildlife and environment topics, so that we can provide the most comprehensive information on every subject. However, we do ask that all posts on these subjects take extra care to ensure that they do not offend either party with inflammatory, insulting or malicious remarks.

We're more than happy to keep this thread open, but please keep it courteous, respect the opinions and feelings of other members, and keep it relevant to the main subject, without any personal attacks.

Thanks

Stuart

[canonman]

Hi
I read this thread yesterday and decided to give it some thought before posting a reply, but most of you have said what I was thinking.
So I have to agree with what must people have said on this thread.
This forum is for discussion not dictatorship.
Many fishing clubs and done a lot to help the improvement of the environment, unfortunately we tend all to hear about the bad side of fishing.
I may be wrong but I understood Blood sport is when an animal is killed.
Fishing clubs today invest a lot of money in protecting their water and making sure it is a clean and healthy environment.
I would dread to think of the condition of our lakes and rivers if it was not for the fishing clubs looking after them. I.e. fly tipping comes to mind.
I was once a fisherman many years ago but gave it up because, not at the time because I thought it bad, but because I want to see and learn more about wildlife and the countryside.
It will be a sad day if the WAB cannot have open discussions on the forum covering all members point of view

Mick

[Captain Kev]

Wildlife is a passionate subject, it’s good to see debate, even heated debate, as this encourages emotion, which in turn spurs people to action.
Like it or not Britain is basically one large Zoo where for the most part wildlife is managed and is allowed to flourish only with the help and understanding of Business, hunting, leisure and housing among others. Even conservation groups have to give up land to these aspects if required by law. We have to fight for for the right management of our nature, we have to work together to enable a balance between the management of the land for the preservation of our wildlife or the preservation of business or people’s rights and this usually means chipping away bit by bit by changing opinions and getting people on our side.
If we disagree with something, then the best way is to try to educate people, try to convince them of your own point of view, you cannot put a message across leaving a forum, that is just self defeating, how can you expect to change opinions if you are not prepared to listen and alter your own in the light of good evidence.

Forums are a great way to spread your message and this forum should not be just for the won over wildlife lover, but for anyone coming onto the site as a way of learning, even hunters have a point of view, all should be encouraged, that way we can get our message across, we can answer questions, we can alter opinions, we can educate and what’s more we can learn as well.

& guess what “it’s all free”.

Kev

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Kev

Wildlife is a passionate subject, it’s good to see debate, even heated debate, as this encourages emotion, which in turn spurs people to action.
Like it or not Britain is basically one large Zoo where for the most part wildlife is managed and is allowed to flourish only with the help and understanding of Business, hunting, leisure and housing among others. Even conservation groups have to give up land to these aspects if required by law. We have to fight for for the right management of our nature, we have to work together to enable a balance between the management of the land for the preservation of our wildlife or the preservation of business or people’s rights and this usually means chipping away bit by bit by changing opinions and getting people on our side.
If we disagree with something, then the best way is to try to educate people, try to convince them of your own point of view, you cannot put a message across leaving a forum, that is just self defeating, how can you expect to change opinions if you are not prepared to listen and alter your own in the light of good evidence.

Forums are a great way to spread your message and this forum should not be just for the won over wildlife lover, but for anyone coming onto the site as a way of learning, even hunters have a point of view, all should be encouraged, that way we can get our message across, we can answer questions, we can alter opinions, we can educate and what’s more we can learn as well.

& guess what “it’s all free”.

Kev

Well said that man, I couldn't agree more.

By the way, welcome to the forum - I was wondering when you were going to post!

[Captain Kev]

The Buzzword is "compromise", without it I doubt we would have the wildlife habitat that we have today. People who don't understand this have lost the fight already.

Hya Al

[Bushcraft]

Originally Posted by StuartDH

Polecat has PM'ed me to make his account inactive, which I've now done, so unfortunately he will no longer be able to reply to any forum posts.

As I mentioned earlier, Wild About Britain will continue to present all opinions from every angle of British wildlife and environment topics, so that we can provide the most comprehensive information on every subject. However, we do ask that all posts on these subjects take extra care to ensure that they do not offend either party with inflammatory, insulting or malicious remarks.

We're more than happy to keep this thread open, but please keep it courteous, respect the opinions and feelings of other members, and keep it relevant to the main subject, without any personal attacks.

Thanks

Stuart

Well, that's a shame. Even though I don't agree with what Polecat said, it is nice to see someone who is very passionate about their beliefs. Like I said in a previous post all that regard fishing as destructive try and get yourself a copy of a "passion for angling" as that will most likely change your minds, it's an insight to the world of 'real' fisherman.

Best wishes
Kris

[John]

It's a shame that Polecat has decided to leave instead of study, and think about, the replies he has generated.

Kev has made some excellent points of view in his post (BTW I too welcome you to WAB Kev). . You look to be an excellent addition to the site.

I made an earlier post asking Polecat to reply. Obviously he won't know but it was regarding Grouse and widfowl shoots and what he thought about them.

If you had asked me about them a few years ago then in my ignorance I would have slammed them as irresponsible. Since becoming a Birdwatchere and learning more and more about our wildlefe I have come to understand that without these managed reserves a lot of our birds would be in even more danger than they are now. The habitats proteced in these reserves so no pesticides or anything else that can harm the ecological systems are used. No overgrazing, no development. Wha6t more could you ask.

I have long since learned that some things that may seem unpalatable are in fact beneficial and we have to learn to accept that fact.

Fishing is one of them. Many benefits come out of it. Clean rivers, protected habitat, stocking of fish in areas where stocks were low. The latter benefits some of our fishing birds such as Kingfishers and Grebes etc so there are many knock on effects to a sport such as fishing.

It's just a shame that Polecat couldn't stick with it and see what the majority of people think, and possibly learn from it.

John

[Jonny]

I sent Polecat a pm, asking him not to leave, saying that I did and regretted it, and how could he put his point of view across if he wasn't here and he pm'ed me back, and I got the impression he is set in his ways, and I respect that, even though I disagree with him. Trouble is that he puts his point of view across and he quickly gets slammed down on here (or pretty much anywhere I should imagine) because there are so many people pro fishing and have some amazing wildlife experiences because of it, I bet he feels on his own.
Should I put up his pm ?................Jon

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Jonny

I sent Polecat a pm, asking him not to leave, saying that I did and regretted it, and how could he put his point of view across if he wasn't here and he pm'ed me back, and I got the impression he is set in his ways, and I respect that, even though I disagree with him. Trouble is that he puts his point of view across and he quickly gets slammed down on here (or pretty much anywhere I should imagine) because there are so many people pro fishing and have some amazing wildlife experiences because of it, I bet he feels on his own.
Should I put up his pm ?................Jon

Not without his permission Jon. I think it's best to let it drop now. If Polecat wants to come back, fair enough, he's welcome in my book.

[nightshade]

It would be good if Polecat came back,there are too few people in this world with strong convictions
Lifestyles may divide us but wildlife unites us,better to have a say!

[Boddie]

I think his convictions were perhaps a little too strong and it strikes me that with comments like

I find myself feeling hypocritical just by having my thread, which could be about the 3 hours it took me to save a mouse, next to one that endorses killing a fish for fun.......in fact it makes me feel horrible............

there was a real risk that being on here was going to make him ill?

[John]

Originally Posted by nightshade

It would be good if Polecat came back,there are too few people in this world with strong convictions

Spot on nightshade.

Originally Posted by nightshade

Lifestyles may divide us but wildlife unites us,better to have a say!

And that was Polecat's problem. He had a closed mind. If only he had loosened off the blinkers he might have seen things a bit differently.

Nothing in this world is really black and white as there are many grey areas that need discussing. By denying these grey areas you are denying the opportunity to learn.

John

[Gill Catton]

Wasn't Polecat involved in Wildlife rescue? I personally am more pro than anti the likes of angling and pheasant shooting mainly because of the quality habitat by-product, but I have spent a bit of time in a swan sanctuary and we did get a lot of wildfowl in with the most awful hook and line related injuries.
I know it is an irresponsible minority or a case of unreachable broken line for otherwise good and caring people but it does happen and I can see if I was faced with that pain and suffering day-in day- out it would probably put a lot of bile in my stomach too....
Having said that, I also totally agree that this must remain an open forum for discussion of all points of view and cannot be held to ransom because of differences in opinion.

[Wild-Woman]

I have watched this thread unfold with interest and wouldn't post a reply because I feel that as someone who knows absolutely nothing about fishing,I would not have the right to.
I do however feel sad that we have lost a WAB member, even if his views were very strong.I wish he had stayed and debated and backed up his evidence so that us 'non-fishers' could have had a balanced argument on which to base our own opinions.
Pity. ww

[gmsmith]

Originally Posted by Wild-Woman

I have watched this thread unfold with interest and wouldn't post a reply because I feel that as someone who knows absolutely nothing about fishing,I would not have the right to.
I do however feel sad that we have lost a WAB member, even if his views were very strong.I wish he had stayed and debated and backed up his evidence so that us 'non-fishers' could have had a balanced argument on which to base our own opinions.
Pity. ww

I too have watched this thread unfold WW, from late last evening, and having taken part in the original thread regarding fishing, felt a little uneasy with regards a reply and have thought long and hard during today as to wether or not respond. Posting threads is new to me and WAB has further endorsed my passion for wild life since I have become a member, as with many others it all started, for me anyway, through my love of fish and fishing. some may query how can you love fish yet catch them with rod and line, and deep down I understand why they react that way, but I cannot put into words why I do. I am deeply sadened that Polecat has left WAB, and hope that some day may return, I also admire his stance with regards the things he is obviously passionate about, though not necessarily his methods of enforcement. However, I would make a promise to Polecat, that, if there was unreputable scientific proof that my passion for angling is detrimental to the health and well being of the fish I have caught and the environment in which those fish are caught, I will without question cease fishing from that moment on.

All the best to everyone

Geoff

[Airehead]

The question posed by GMSmith, 'How can you love fish and yet catch them ...' is difficult to answer only, I think, because we have as a society almost dissociated ourselves from our roots in the real (natural) world. That is, we have taken on a veneer of sophistication which causes us to view ouselves as something above the rest of creation and I happen to believe that we can only find individual fulfillment if we accept that we simply occupy an unexalted position in the natural world and are subject to the same laws of nature as the animals from which we evolved.

I think that evidence to support this idea would come to light if statistics could be compiled to show how many people involved in petty crime and city riots were in fact anglers or hunters. It is isolation from nature which in my opinion is at the root of antisocial behaviour.

'How can you love fish..' is too narrow a scope. Perhaps it should be 'How can you love the living world, and yet be prepared to take life from it?'. The answer is, because that is the nature of the living world. There is no right and wrong in nature, only in the human imagination. Should I hate fish in order to eat them? It is a ridiculous question.

We have an understanding that the American Indian culture was one which revered the natural world and lived in harmony with it. Well, I would like to do the same but this crowded society prevents me.

We have a strange situation when the only predator which is unacceptable is the human predator. A lot of it is down to television hype. We have all, ironically, learned to admire the raptors.

So you think the lion has a right to its hunting space? Well, so have I! What's so special about the lion?

Fishing has kept me sane. Time spent on the river bank, when I was in a very stressful situation, was the only time I could view my problem dispassionately.

There is a book called 'The Hunting Gene' to which I know I saved a reference, but I can't find it now. If I find itI will post it.

This has been rather disjointed. There are many aspects of this subject. It is a relief to find that in this forum the majority of people are open-minded.

[Lincs Yellowbelly]

Excellent post Airehead

Fishing has given me so much, it has given me the opertuntity to be close to nature, to learn about all the different animals we encounter. There is nothing quite like being woken by the birds at the dawn chorus, when 99.99999% of people are fast asleep, putting on the kettle and watching the sun come up and the day begin

Its difficult for me to explain to non-anglers why i go fishing, but i guess it brings you closer to how humans began, and to how you probably should live. I'm sure the human race would be much happier if we where still hunter/gatherers

[John]

If nothing else Polecat has started a quality thread. Quality because the contibutors to this thread are possibly by far and away the most level headed members of any forum I have been associated with.

It is such an emotive subject that it could have so easily dropped into farcical proportions. The fact that it hasn't is testament to the sensible thought that each contributor has put into the thread content.

It has been a pleasure to read the resulting replies.

John

[Wild-Woman]

Yes, I agree with you on that one John. Lots of 'food for thought'. I think the next time I am near a lake/river where there are anglers, I shall watch awhile. ww

[nightshade]

Airehead,I agree with most of what you have said until you get to the bit about rioting,
Hunters and anglers would not be there because they are already on the road to fulfilment
in their chosen pastimes

[Alan]

Originally Posted by nightshade

Airehead,I agree with most of what you have said until you get to the bit about rioting,
Hunters and anglers would not be there because they are already on the road to fulfilment
in their chosen pastimes

Hunters or anglers might be there though, if their pastime was about to be banned!