Personal Locator Beacons

[jenniwren]

I love wild life and exploring the countryside. It's nice to spot wild animals and plants off the beaten track. Last year I was riding long distance through Shropshire and had the misfortune to break my leg from a fall in the middle of a field. I was lucky and wasn't riding alone and had mobile reception, but there are many places where where this is not possible.

I discovered that there is a system of Personal Locator Beacons which are legal for Marine and Aviation but illegal for land use . For a informative explanation of what these are please go to Personal locator beacons Great Britain

We have a petition that can be accessed from that page which we would be really grateful if you would sign. We just want the law changed so that we have the choice to legally own a PLB should you wish to.

[big bill]

I can agree with you that they would be benificial to the hill walkers especially if they were to get caught out unawares and lost on some mountain side or had an accident it would save the search and rescue people a lot of time and money,but I suppose the powers that be are worried that they could be misused or fall into the hands of some misguided and irresponsible yob who would think it great fun to set them off

[jenniwren]

This is a concern to some people but a unit owner is unlikely to lend the PLB to a yob. They have to be registered to the owner with the PLB registry and licensed with OFCOM. At a cost of around £280 for a GPS PLB personally I wouldn't let somone else borrow it.

On top of this the current rules and regulations cover misuse by fines, confiscation and imprisonment. Before any response by the SARs they do go through a system check and being GPS they can pinpoint if it has been set off accidentally at home. Also they can check by phoning the owner or an elected point of contact.

Yesterday there was a marine prankster who was jailed for misuse of the SAR as a joke.

[cybershot]

Am I right in thinking it is possible to locate any mobile phone (off or on) via the means of a GPS system. (I seem to remember my daughter was located on an auto breakdown call out by a similar method)

David

P.S. And now I believe there are on-line agencies to which you can register for tracking purposes.

[jenniwren]

If you're suggesting that an injured person could be located by this means they would have to be reported missing in the first place which could be too late for the casualty in less populated areas.

The PLB has the advantage that the owner can activate it a lot sooner where mobile reception, whistle and shouting have no effect. Any company would be able to stay with the casualty instead of going to the nearest phone which could be miles away. This would leave the casualty at risk.

Yes there are tracking devices but even these can lose sight of the owner in black spots. Many of these rely on SIM cards (mobile phone) and the search area is a lot less pin pointed than with a GPS PLB that gives a bearing within 125 metres. We are talking about people in the country where there is less mobile phone coverage. In areas where the population in more dense you can locate mobile phones by the method you were talking, but it would have to be switched on and would be done by triangulation not GPS.

Another consideration is that the GPS PLB does not need monthly subscription as with tracker devices.

[cybershot]

A very good point. It might be said that the systems I've heard about have a more 'common or garden' application

David

[jenniwren]

Hello David, I didn't mention battery life. Mobile phone battery life is a good deal shorter than a PLB which will transmit for at least 24 hours.

There are tracking devices for vehicles and tracking devices in the mobile phone type panic button you may be referring to which require the SIM card I mentioned before.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by cybershot

Am I right in thinking it is possible to locate any mobile phone (off or on) via the means of a GPS system. (I seem to remember my daughter was located on an auto breakdown call out by a similar method)

David

P.S. And now I believe there are on-line agencies to which you can register for tracking purposes.

I think you are thinking of the alternative emergency number 112 - if you dial this from a mobile they can triangulate your position from nearby masts - it works pretty well but only where there is mobile signal.

I agree the plbs should be legalised - i actually have a ex military Tacbe which a mate in the army go for me when i was planning on solo walking the larig ghru. The TACBE (tactical beacon) is like a PLB but also enables you to use it as a radio on comercial airline channels - I cant use it legally in the UK but if the alternative was bleeding to death or dying of hypothermia in the scottish highland I'd be inclined to use it anyway and deal with the legal consequences later.

[Mr Mag00]

thanks for posting this jenniwren, i do a lot of solo mtb riding and this would be great. I for one will look at the petition.

[jenniwren]

When posting this on various forums I've come against such resistance. The information is there on the Equine Ramblers UK website and I'm sure many haven't taken the time to read it. It is refreshing to get some postings that see the benefit. Thankyou.

The petition is growing daily now and we have an MP who is going to put questions in Parliament. There are others working behind the scenes in the same direction, but Equine Ramblers UK (as far as I know) is the only one presenting the case publicly. The majority of the public do not know that PLBs exist and that they can plug the gap left by negative mobile phone reception.

[Blackpatch]

Am I the only person who does not own a mobile phone. I have always misstrusted the technology and resent the amount of phone masts that are causing potentential harm to our health - couple that with the undoubted harm it does to pre-adolesant kids and no, I do not support anything that incourages the use of this kind of technology. It has it`s uses but people are now just missusung it to the point of harming themselves and others in the future. It will come to be seen that the ammount of masts and overuse of mobile phones is detremental to health, but by that time it will be too late for some - rather like smoking was years ago, no one really understood the harm nicotine causes - now sadly too late, they do.

I draw everyones attention to this link which may cause you to think about the ammount of calls you make and the masts needed for them.

The Cell Phone "Tower of Doom" - Articles
Please read the whole article and tell me you do not think there is some truth in it.

[jenniwren]

There's a lot of hype about radio frequencies, power lines and damage to health. My Husband, his brother (and their father during his working life) work in the high voltage electrical industry as do many others. Close up work in live substations.

Radio waves are at such low frequencies that they cannot do any harm. Your microwave could do more if the rubber seal leaked! The scare against the power lines is unfounded too when you think of all the workers that are invovled in maintainance of your electrical supply.

Blackpatch would you take a PLB with you? These only emit a signal when you activate them which one hopes will be rare.

By the way the link doesn't work.

[Blackpatch]

Jeniwren, Did you read all of Dr Mercolas comments as well as related links that I posted? Also the ultra conservative Lancet medical journal has some damning things to say. I won`t even use sat nav in the car, let alone personall beacons. What did everyone do before this technology? I just don`t think putting a mobile to your ears for the ammount of time that people do is at all good, especially if you are a teen with a still thin, underdeveloped skull. I know I have strayed from your point but I feel strongly about cell phones and do think the truth will out. Please read the links and get back to me.

Kirk

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Blackpatch

Jeniwren, Did you read all of Dr Mercolas comments as well as related links that I posted? Also the ultra conservative Lancet medical journal has some damning things to say. I won`t even use sat nav in the car, let alone personall beacons. What did everyone do before this technology? I just don`t think putting a mobile to your ears for the ammount of time that people do is at all good, especially if you are a teen with a still thin, underdeveloped skull. I know I have strayed from your point but I feel strongly about cell phones and do think the truth will out. Please read the links and get back to me.

Kirk

Without wanting to take this thread further off subject it is worth noting that dr mercola is hardly an unbiased or peer reviewed expert - the only biographical information is on his own website which seems to exist soley to forment hype about subjects that are popular in the press - he lancet medical journal is a solid and trustworthy source but it is also a medical journal and very easy for the lay person to misinterpret.

a second point is that Dr M gives contradictory information claiming that there is a 5-20 year delay in health defects becoming apparent - but also claiming that the "tower of doom" has caused cancer in local residents in a much shorter time span , which hardly helps his credibility

A final is that if we accept dr mercolas points then we are all being bombarded by the radiation from towers whether we have cell phones or not, similiarly the satelite radiowaves that a sat nav would pick up are present regardless of whether you actually have a sat nav in the car.

let alone personal locator beacons (the subject of this thread) which do not even radiate unless they are activated in an emergency.

[Ipso Facto]

Originally Posted by Blackpatch

What did everyone do before this technology?

Die more frequently from other causes?

[richardkm]

I have sat nav in the car, gps when I'm out walking and a mobile phone. The mobile phone gets used mainly for text messages, I can't remember the last time I put it up to my ear. The gps only gets switched on for geocaching. Only once have I ever used it for navigation, and that was in a thick fog when I had been exploring and lost track of exactly where I was. The sat nav is always on when I'm travelling and gets used a great deal.

Technology - I love it.

Having spent many a dark and stormy night searching for lost souls, I would welcome a locator device. It could save lives and reduce the number of man hours spent searching.

I think, Blackpatch, that if you had spent the night out injured on the moors in wet, freezing conditions wondering if anyone would ever find you, you would be less critical of technology such as locators, gps and mobile phones. I've seen a grown man cry when we finally found him after line searching miles and mile of moorland because his companion thought he had left him somewhere else. Not a vision that I can forget!

[jenniwren]

Blackpatch, Yes, I've read the link. Dr Mercola's article doesn't ring true. There will be no point in having a radio signal that didn't carry information in whatever form (voice, video or digital). Radio signals have been with us for more than one hundred years and not caused health problems. Personal Locator Beacons operate at frequencies lower than TV transmitters and for short periods of time when switched on.

.....if you had spent the night out injured on the moors in wet, freezing conditions wondering if anyone would ever find you, you would be less critical of technology such as locators, gps and mobile phones.

I agree with Richardkm that you would be grateful for the technology if you were in the above situation.

I think that GPS in cars are a waste of time, but they do not transmit anything. They are receive only. Blackpatch will you be getting rid of your television and radio? Don't take things to such an extreme. There are so many things that can cause life threatening illnesses that people can become paranoid. You don't know if the persons living in the flats were all smokers and that they lived an unhealthy lifestyle. The flats themselves could have contained toxins.

[Ipso Facto]

Originally Posted by jenniwren

... I think that GPS in cars are a waste of time ...

If you are speaking about having GPS built into a car as a fixed option I think that I probably agree (but not necessarily totally), if you are talking about the more transferable TomToms or NavMans (or should that be NavMen?) I couldn't, with respect, agree less: I use one set across both of our cars and occasionally lend it to friends. If you are travelling on your own, setting off into the unknown is so much easier (and safer!) following verbal instructions than it is to try following a map with just a couple of privisos ...

I needed to fit an exterior aerial to secure a reliable signal - the first time I went to London without this the trip was almost a disaster. Every time the going got complicated or difficult the signal disappeared amongst the tall buildings and I found myself totally on my own. The second gripe I have is the way that they can so easily lead you in to Rabbit warrens. In Devon last year, particularly with the hedges and high banks, there were a couple of occasions where it would have been literally impossible to open the car door if I had needed to (thank God for sunroofs I say!): I thought that I had chosen the 'fastest' option not the 'narrowest'! I can fully appreciate why some communities get upset when HGVs keep on rolling through.

[Blackpatch]

Point taken about not getting paranoid, but I am glad it is not me with a phone glued to my ear like a lot of people. As I said, what did you all do before; I cannot stand being near people who are having loud conversations on them, in Tescos or on a train. I will never have one but can see their uses, espesially in emergency situations, but they are dangerously overused.

I will not be getting rid of my tv or radio or computer - have to draw the line somewhere and they are much more usefull.

I have and do walk regularly on moorland and downland (member of the South Downs Society and would draw your attention to the online petition in the petitions forum) and am always happy to get away from all things civilised and comune with nature and that certainly does not mean with a personal locator. However, long distance yachting and I would be glad of one.

In short, wouldn`t this kind of technology be best used sparingly; not in your car or in the supermarket or on the train and if we have to have phone masts, not in areas of outstanding natural beauty or National park land and can they be disguised to look like trees when they can be seen by roadsides.

Ps, Jenniwren, you say radio signals have been with us for 100 years but not at this consentrated level, consider the ammount of masts and the people all around using cell phones, there is practically no where you can go now without being bombarded by radio waves.

[jenniwren]

Ipso Facto, GPS as in Tom Tom for travel navigation does have it's uses, I agree. I live in rural North Wales and came across an artic lorry last year at a small T-junction in a country lane absolutely jammed round the corner. It had no hope of taking the turn! But having driven lorries for work I understand the difficulty of finding your destination when not familiar with the area. You have to use common sense with all technology. It's just a piece of kit I don't think is necessary and prefer the skill of map reading.

Blackpatch, unfortunately we are stuck with the technology. The masts, the phones and everything else. They do disguise masts as trees in some places. They look like Spruce/Cedar trees. Everyone is free to choose what they wish to carry with them when out in the countryside. The only thing at the moment is that PLBs are restricted and if you read the PLB page on Equine Ramblers UK there's loads of supporting information. Just to reiterate a point that PLBs are not switched on till you push the button for help. They also transmit to a satellite and not into your ear!

However, long distance yachting and I would be glad of one.

You are rather back-tracking on PLBs when you say that you'd carry one for yacthing! If you are a yachting person you are being unfair to the land-lubbers.

[Blackpatch]

To be honest, I have nothing against PLBs, only cell phones and no, I am not a yachting person so my comment was superfluous.

[Ipso Facto]

Originally Posted by jenniwren;241684 [/B

... I live in rural North Wales and came across an artic lorry last year at a small T-junction in a country lane absolutely jammed round the corner. It had no hope of taking the turn! But having driven lorries for work I understand the difficulty of finding your destination when not familiar with the area. You have to use common sense with all technology. It's just a piece of kit I don't think is necessary and prefer the skill of map reading ...

I'm sorry, I still don't agree. Whilst I do fully appreciate the effect GPS is having on HGV routing (as I said in my original post) I believe that the SatNav companies are trying to sort the problems out although their progress may be too slow for some. In the short term the use of SatNav directions does take some skill - they shouldn't be followed blindly.

I saw one of those naff "Police, Camera, Action" programmes over the weekend: one item caught a lorry driver travelling at a reasonable speed reading his map (he actually held it up in front of his face). Not only was this dangerous, he was fined £200.

I agree map reading is a skill and I try to put it into practise whenever I can whilst walking (I do not carry a hand held GPS) but whilst driving ... no thank you.

[richardkm]

I use a satnav in my car and motorhome constantly when travelling to places that are unfamiliar. One of the problems I believe is that people don't set them up properly. When I'm in my car I set it to "car" and, depending what I want to do, I switch between "Shortest distance" or "Fastest time" - the latter tends to use more motorway routes. When I'm in my motorhome, I switch it to "Truck". This means that I avoid narrow roads. However, it's not foolproof. When travelling between 2 wildlife areas in East Anglia, the satnav wanted to take me down this tiny road (more of a track) that ended at a drain, with no bridge. As I has a trailer on, it would have been hell to have turned round. As I had familiarised myself with the route beforehand, I knew that this was a wrong turning, so ignored it.

Blackpatch, there is a considerable difference between walking the South Downs (where I grew up) and walking on the Peak District moors. Lack of navigation skills on the former won't make much difference if the weather changes, but when bad weather hits the Kinder or Bleaklow plateaux, conditions can be life threatening. Knowing how to use your map and compass or having and being able to correctly use a gps can mean the difference between an enjoyable day out and misery, even death.

[Ukwildlifeo]

Anything that helps people be found in emergencys cant be bad. As for the worries about radiowaves its all nonsense. The earth has been bombared with all forms of radiation since it formed, including radiowaves, so we were surrounded by radiowaves in the stone age.