Personal Locator Beacons

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Originally Posted by breyten

I have served on large sailing ships, and been quite familar with safety equipement.
As I am going to walk this summer in area's of scotland where the nearest house is miles and miles away, I will have a PLB with me. The change that I need it is below zero, but I don't take the risk. And do I need it, it will be because I am close to death, legal issues I will take for granted then. I rather .

To me, a large part of walking or trekking in the wilderness is just that - civilisation is not on the end of a button you can press to call the rescue troops. To me, this enhances the experience manifold.

Where in Scotland are you walking that is miles and miles away from the nearest house? I've hiked around Knoydart which is probably as remote as you can get in the UK, and even there you are not that far from the nearset human.

I think your perception of the dangers involved in walking in the UK are a little exaggerated. Of course accidents happen, but statistically you are far more likely to be killed by your house burning down. Does that mean you want a panic button directly linked to the nearest fire station?

If you are that concerned about the consequences of walking up a hill I suggest you don't go at all and find a "safer" hobby.

[breyten]

Ehm, I think I can handle most things nature will through at me. And think I have proven that quite a lot in the times at sea, but also when walking. Yes and for me, it also is part of the experience that you try yourself in nature. Even I admit that the changes that I ever use a PLB are lesser than zero.

But let it put it this way. I have served on sailing ships. The changes that you die at sea, or even injury are even smaller than walking up Scotland, let alone a house fire (one ship that I was on, had a high number of injuries, two mayor accidents in the past 70 years, one of it fatal). But everybody at sea is more than aware that safety equipment and as part of it communication equipment is an important part. There is not a ship’s captain even thinking of leaving the safety equipment behind because he is properly not going to use it.

Why is it that land based activities always are different. Why do walkers always think that they will be fine up a Scottish mountain without the adequate communication equipment? How far do you think a whistle carries it sound in a wooded area? And emergency communication is not for when you are lost, you are tired or even when you have injuries. It is a tool, when you are in live treating situations, to alert emergency services, when you are out of mobile reach.

So, simply, of course try your hardest in battling nature, I know I will. But I don't want to be the one found dead. Nor do I want to be the one, who costs society an awful lot of money, because of a long search operation when I am fighting for my life. So as it says, in your quoted piece, the chances I ever use one is below zero, but just for the peace of mind of my family and friends.

The question I think is more, and I think that is most opponents’ problem with it. That you as a walker, biker, horse rider, have to invest in it. And that normal ways of contacting the emergency services are free. Why would you invest 200-300 pounds, if it doesn't help you when you are lost or hungry?

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by breyten

Why do walkers always think that they will be fine up a Scottish mountain without the adequate communication equipment?

I find a mobile 'phone pretty useless in the hills. A couple of years ago I was camping by Loch Etchachan and had to ascend MacDui three times on consecutive days to get reception to check how my daughter was getting on when she was expecting a baby. You basically can't get reception in any of the glens, and have to climb to get line of sight to a beacon - and if you're fit enough to do that, you're probably fit enough to walk out of the situation.

I usually tell the rangers that at my age a heart attack is the most likely scenario, in which case the emergency services wouldn't be able to get to me soon enough - and they may as well leave me to the crows and buzzards!

Jim

[Blackpatch]

My last word on the subject is. No problem with personal locater beacons - they save lives. Mobile phones, however are a very different issue. Anyone interested in the dangers they represent should read these articles in two very respectable newspapers.
Mobile phones 'more dangerous than smoking' - Health News, Health & Wellbeing - The Independent
Mobile phones tumour risk to young children - Times Online

[breyten]

Originally Posted by Jim Ford

I find a mobile 'phone pretty useless in the hills. A couple of years ago I was camping by Loch Etchachan and had to ascend MacDui three times on consecutive days to get reception to check how my daughter was getting on when she was expecting a baby. You basically can't get reception in any of the glens, and have to climb to get line of sight to a beacon - and if you're fit enough to do that, you're probably fit enough to walk out of the situation.

I usually tell the rangers that at my age a heart attack is the most likely scenario, in which case the emergency services wouldn't be able to get to me soon enough - and they may as well leave me to the crows and buzzards!

Jim

Good, what I have learned, when I got some land and sea survival training. Make sure that you have two ways of communicating with the outside world. Whistle and torch counts as one, as one is the daylight and the other the night solution. Radio/PLB's are another one. Mobile phones are never,never an safety communication device. If they work you are lucky.

An other, legal mobile option is an satellite telephone, but they are for normal mortal people financial out of reach. The risk with both torch and whistle is that a lot of people do not know the signalling, so that even if you are seen, it can be useless. Not every inhabitant of the countryside know the signals or what to do and to answer when he see some.

So, yes if you have a mobile phone, take it with you, you might be lucky and then it will help you. But always make sure that you have other options.
Because of this, I can not understand that the British government takes away the best, cheapest way of emergency communication. And what I said before, if I will die otherwise, I will use a PLB, no mater what Gordon Brown says. And luckily international law is with me on this point.

[Jim Ford]

In the emergency kit I take into the hills, I have a small inflatable kite made of metalised foil which is supposed to be radar reflective. It also doubles as an emergency splint and body insulation. I don't know how well it works and don't really want to be in a situation to find out!

Jim