Beech is welcome in the North??

[wildwoman]

New Year, Old Quests.

The beech tree in England is suffering the "double whammy" of climate stress in the south and being felled as an allegedly "non-native" species in the north.

Conservation groups and land owners are under legal obligation (grant qualifications etc) to remove non-native species and the beech is bearing the brunt of this agenda with piles of clear felled mature beech trees stacked up looking like elephant ivory throughout Cumbria. This is a sad state of affairs for a tree that arrived in Britain before the English Channel was formed thousands of years ago. Natural England have said that professional conservationists may be confused about the proposed description of ‘new native’ for beech. The status could be native* - whatever the status -
‘non-native’ is plainly wrong.

Please ask your MP to support Tim Farron’s EDM 449

Early Day Motion 449 BEECH TREES
"That this House believes that beech trees are an integral part of the British landscape; is dismayed that beech trees are at risk of disappearing from parts of the British Isles due to a combination of felling in the north and climate change in the south; further believes that beeches should be reclassified in Cumbria as new native in order to prevent their felling as non-native; and wishes to ensure that these trees will be around for the benefit of biodiversity and future generations"

[Wild-Woman]

The above post isn't me by the way!!!!!!!!!!

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by Wild-Woman

The above post isn't me by the way!!!!!!!!!!

How could we ever confuse anyone else for you!
Important post though ....

[Paul mabbott]

Very good point.
Why can't people just leave trees alone unless they're some distant exotic such as Rhododendron ponticum. We get these dumb arguments about what is "native" and "natural" for an area when in fact everything is in a state of flux. Given enhanced climate change we should really let things survive wherever they will grow.

Quite likely we'll get southern European oaks proliferating where Q. robur/sessile die out - not natural but better than nothing, surely?

Originally Posted by wildwoman

New Year, Old Quests.

The beech tree in England is suffering the "double whammy" of climate stress in the south and being felled as an allegedly "non-native" species in the north.

Conservation groups and land owners are under legal obligation (grant qualifications etc) to remove non-native species and the beech is bearing the brunt of this agenda with piles of clear felled mature beech trees stacked up looking like elephant ivory throughout Cumbria. This is a sad state of affairs for a tree that arrived in Britain before the English Channel was formed thousands of years ago. Natural England have said that professional conservationists may be confused about the proposed description of ‘new native’ for beech. The status could be native* - whatever the status -
‘non-native’ is plainly wrong.

Please ask your MP to support Tim Farron’s EDM 449

Early Day Motion 449 BEECH TREES
"That this House believes that beech trees are an integral part of the British landscape; is dismayed that beech trees are at risk of disappearing from parts of the British Isles due to a combination of felling in the north and climate change in the south; further believes that beeches should be reclassified in Cumbria as new native in order to prevent their felling as non-native; and wishes to ensure that these trees will be around for the benefit of biodiversity and future generations"

[ericrovve]

What about conker trees and walnuts. Cut those down first, perhaps?

[nightshade]

I despair at the stupidity of people,did nobody give them a definitive list?

[Highland Damsel]

Native-non native, this is a huge and interesting debate, beech is a difficult one, it's not clear cut. I work in a garden on the edge of a highland estate. There are beech trees planted in the garden and these have slowly worked their way into the woods. I did a woodland survey of the adjacent woodland for my other job and beech is moving in. We have beech woods elsewhere on the estate as part of the policies of the big hoose. There is no ground flora under a mature beech canopy, a floristically complex system has been replaced by a virtual monoculture from a horticultural provenance, this cannot be described as native, but introduced this far north (mainland opposite the Isle of Skye). If it came naturally as it colonised the country then it may be different but i'm not sure. I can see both sides of this argument and i'm undecided although given the time i might work to prevent garden trees outcompeting and replacing a fully developed and reasonably diverse woodland.

[wildwoman]

Highland Damsel,
Here in Cumbria native oaks, ash etc are constantly removed from limestone pavements - I agree, management is necessary for balance. The beeches problem here in Cumbria is that beech is not only managed but conservation bodies and land owners are legally obliged to remove non-native species. Ten years ago the advice from the Forestry Commission and English Nature was to clear fell the Rusland Beeches- 54 mature beech trees - these beeches are fantastic for wildlife and flora- there are several species of bats, many birds including increasingly threatened owls and woodpeckers and ground flora - spring flowers, holly etc. Language is important - the oak is described as 'dominant' and the beech as 'invasive.' It took a vigorous campaign to prevent clearfelling of the Rusland Beeches on the margin of an SSSI. Of course beech should be managed but they should be given respect as 'native' trees. The Forestry Commission accept that climate change is happening and beech is stressed in its accepted southern range. Their solution is to plant northern beech refuges (no same age monoculture we hope!) Refuges alone will not address situations where mature and maturing beech are being felled in the name of conservation now, for example around Thirlmere. "Refuges" without a change in 'non-native' perception will lead to "there are designated places for beech"

[ron1863]

Could someone please define the term "native".
Personally I love Beech trees and think that they are beautiful trees that support a wide variety of wildlife, unlike some conifer trees that are not "native" but are planted as a cash crop in their hundreds of thousands, where they block out light, nothing grows on the forest floor and very few animals can live in it.

[Jez]

Originally Posted by wildwoman

New Year, Old Quests.

This is a sad state of affairs for a tree that arrived in Britain before the English Channel was formed thousands of years ago.

The English Channel has a Tunnel going right through to France so were more or less joined at the hip so whats the issue wih cutting Down The Beech whether Native or not?

[C C]

Originally Posted by Highland Damsel

. There is no ground flora under a mature beech canopy, a floristically complex system has been replaced by a virtual monoculture from a horticultural provenance, this cannot be described as native, but introduced this far north (mainland opposite the Isle of Skye). If it came naturally as it colonised the country then it may be different but i'm not sure. I can see both sides of this argument and i'm undecided although given the time i might work to prevent garden trees outcompeting and replacing a fully developed and reasonably diverse woodland.

There is one wood that i help out with, it is an Oak and Hazel wood with areas of Carr. Sycamore is the biggest pain for this wood, and now sadly Beech. Beech is showing to out compete the Oak from sapling growth (in this wood). I am not saying that Beech is not important, but the Oak woods in this area is far more valuable to the wildlife than that of Beech.


Regards Christian.

[wildwoman]

Beech gets a bad press from many conservationists - unfairly I think - having spent many hours painting spring flowers and an undercanopy of holly in woodlands which include mature beech.
In the latest issue of the Cumbria Wildlife Trust Volunteer newsletter -volunteers are asked to remove ‘non-native’ beech from native woodland – this includes mature trees as well as saplings. United Utilites continue with their programme of felling non-native species around Thirlmere this means the mature beech around the Lake. Perversely in the non-native pine
plantations above Thirlmere reservoir the only trees being targeted are
the maturing beech which are ring barked effectively killing them. Not good news for the Red Squirrels have lost important canopy and which are observed to much prefer the beech mast to pine cones.

Pollen analysis ( Henry Godwin) indicates that beech was present at least as far as Cumbria in the Iron Age.
Natural England say that professional conservationists would be confused
over a new classification for beech. This may be so– but whatever the
classification –‘non-native’ is plainly wrong.