Where have all the hedgehogs gone?

[catalaze]

Hmmmm. I've always had lots of Hedgehogs where I've lived. Do you all feed them? It's a fallacy that milk is bad for them. I think the rumour arose because some twits decided to feed Hedgehogs on all milk or mainly milk and they got upset tummies. The Pat Morris, a man of science and Hedgehogology, actually did a lot of research into what Hedgehogs eat in gardens. He found that although they'll happily stop for a slurp of milk, they only do so by way of a coffee break and eat all sorts of things during the night. The Hedgehogs which were said to always drink the milk, turned out to be lots of different Hedgehogs, treating the milk source as a cafe. In fact, he found that milk can make the difference between death and survival for late Hedgehog broods.

Of course, you all have a nice Hedgehog house available in your garden, yes? A sort of large nestboxish thing with a supply of fresh hay or similar? Start sawing now. Dog bowls are best for the milk as they don't tip easily. Lovers of goat things will be pleased to know that Goat's Milk is actually Best for Hedgehogs!

They'll also eat almost anything else you leave, the microwaved standard Bird Pudding being highly favoured.

A Bird Pudding, incidentally, is based on cheap self-raising flour and incorporates everything leftover: old pate, rice with weevils, food trimmings, over-ripe fruit, smelly cream, sour milk, cardboard cereals etc, all mixed to a scone consistency and microwaved to perfection (10 min for a mixing bowl of it).

[nightshade]

The pudding sounds worth trying,do you think they would fight me for it!!
The sound of a dish or bowl of food being skated around by the HHogs is something I miss

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by catalaze

[color="Sienna"]Hmmmm. I've always had lots of Hedgehogs where I've lived. Do you all feed them? It's a fallacy that milk is bad for them. I think the rumour arose because some twits decided to feed Hedgehogs on all milk or mainly milk and they got upset tummies. The Pat Morris, a man of science and Hedgehogology, actually did a lot of research into what Hedgehogs eat in gardens. He found that although they'll happily stop for a slurp of milk,

It is decidedly not a fallacy that milk is bad for hedgehogs, just because they often drink it does not been it is good for them (after all loads of people smoke...). Les Stocker who runs the famous St Tiggywinkles wildlife hospital researched the issue and found that the link between feeding cows milk and gastro enteritis in hedgehogs (which is often fatal)was "proven beyond doubt"

If you must feed milk, goats milk is better than cows but it is better still to feed complan formula or best of all just water. Feeding bread is another big no no as it will swell up in their stomachs, cat food, cooked mince, or meal worms are a far better bet.

[catalaze]

The research performed by Dr. Pat Morris was thorough, scientifically undertaken and followed wild Hedgehogs throughout their foraging activities for a long period - in entirely natural conditions. The findings were simply that milk formed a part of the wild Hedgehog garden foraging diet and was also an invaluable resource for late young Hedgehogs .

There is a superb little book by him about Hedgehogs, part of the excellent Whittet series and called, simply, "Hedgehogs" which I'd recommend to anyone interested in gardens and wildlife.

My own experience entirely supports this. Hedgehogs are a delight to watch whilst drinking milk in the garden and they show no signs of disease as a consequence. Their droppings do not indicate any abnormality. As a drop of milk is beneficial I'll continue to feed them.

Milk isn't natural in the adult human life but it is certainly good for us - unless we already have a digestive problem. It is probably the same for Hedgehogs.

[eeyore]

Les's research was equally thorough and well researched and was based principally on autopsy evidence which running the largest hedge hog hospital in the uk he is uniquely well placed to collect. - I generally have nothing but respect for Pat Morrisses work but how he can follow a wild hedgehog 24/7 is beyond me - I have done a lot of radio tracking work with badgers and can vouch for the fact that it isnt possible to follow them visually all the time and they are significantly larger than a hedgehog.

This is an excerpt from the tiggywinkles website

Why bread & milk is bad for hedgehogs

What does the Hedgehog eat naturally?The hedgehog is carnivorous and, in the wild, lives on a diet of beetles, earthworms and other invertebrates.

Which animals drink milk naturally?
None. All animals are weaned off their mother's milk before reaching adulthood.

Is milk beneficial to adult animals?
No, for the following reasons:

1. Milk is very bad for the teeth; bread and milk is especially bad, as it is too soft for proper dental care.

2. Many animals are intolerant of the lactose in milk which can lead to diarrhoea, dehydration and death.

3. Milk is iron deficient so in excess can cause dietary imbalance.

4. Milk will readily curdle if left for any length of time.

5. Milks that have been skimmed or semi-skimmed have had beneficial fat soluble vitamins removed.

6. In drought conditions animals may drink milk rather than water, to their detriment.

7. Milk is an ideal medium for the proliferation of harmful bacteria in the stomach and intestines.

Do Hedgehogs like milk?
Undoubtedly, but we all like chocolate which is bad for our teeth.

Will milk help a hedgehog put on fat for its winter hibernation?
Only some unskimmed milks contain fat. Tinned cat or dog foods are far more efficient at building up body fat reserves.

Conclusions Milk especially with bread, is of no use as a dietary supplement for hedgehogs and is potentially harmful

Now I'm happy to agree to disagree with you, but my money is on Les, who has extensive day to day hedgehog experience, being correct in this instance.

[nightshade]

I have never given milk to any animal on the premise that milk is for babies it is also an excellent food for bacteria.Where would hedgehogs get it from in the wild?

[eeyore]

Quite, excepting old wives tales about them sucking it from cows teats they wouldnt encounter it naturally at all. In fact even the assertion that cows milk is good for us is somewhat flawed - its good for children and adolecents and better for adults than a variety of other thinks we might drink , but its high lactose content has been repeatedly shown to lead to minor digestive disorders even in those who have not previously had them - goats milk is somewhat better as the lactose content is lower.

[catalaze]

Milk is a good adjunct to the Hedgehog diet and also gives people a chance to see what is usually a rather secretive little mammal. I think everything I had to say is in my original post and anyone who wants to know more can read the Whittet book and/or look up the peer-reviewed literature on the subj.

When I wrote, I had no idea who started this myth & assumed it a general misconception. I was, therefore, somewhat surprised when you appeared to attribute the origin of the belief to the organisation you cite. I don't, however, think it is fair to go on to cast aspersions on the character of named individuals.

The garden and town are not the evolved habitat of the Hedgehog and food supplementation is as useful to them as almost any other animal, including Homo sapiens. They are naturally somewhat opportunist in their diet, anyway, enjoying the odd egg and fruit in addition to invertebrates.

As I write, I can hear the distinctive hoarse snuffling of a Hedgehog making its rounds of the undergrowth in the garden, sniffing out whatever it can find. If it stops for quick drink, from milk dish or pond, I'll enjoy that too.

[eeyore]

I am not casting any aspertions on the work of pat morris - all his research proved was that hedgehogs regularly drink milk, which indeed they do, but this doesnt mean that it is good for them, after all people regularly smoke, eat junk food, drink too much, take drugs etc etc.

I doubt that Les originated the dont feed milk to hedgehogs idea but he definitely has done enough research to substantiate its truth. Unadulterated cows milk may well be the difference between life and death for a young hedgehog, but far from being a life saver it could easily be the kiss of death. Wildlife hospitals dont feed them expensive complan formula for a laugh, they do so because bitter experience has shown that feeding cows milk is often fatal.

And incidentally I do not just "appear to atribute" this information to tiggywinkles - by implication you are calling me a liar which I do not appreciate - All the information I have put here is on their website so anyone who doubts my word can check it out for themselves http://www.sttiggywinkles.org.uk/

I agree that there is nothing wrong with suplementary feeding but it is a good move to feed stuff which resembles their natural diet and which stands a better chance of being good for them.

Anyway I have said all i have to say on this matter also and it appears that we are going to have to agree to disagree, but as far as anyone else reading this goes by all means check out the pat morris book and peer review, but please also check out Les stockers four books on the subject and the other surrounding information.

And ask yourselves one question , if there is any chance that what you are feeding might be bad for your hedgy freinds woulnt it be better to err on the side of caution and feed summat else instead ?

[catalaze]

Oh dear, Eeeore, have a nice thistle, do. "Appear to attribute" isn't an insult, you just didn't say outright that you DID attribute the comments to them. You don't believe milk is a perfectly good food. The evidence I've seen says it is. End of story.