Petition - Snaring in Scotland

[flowerofedin]

I had meant to start a thread about this the other day, but I got and started one about eggs from caged hens instead! The link below is the one for downloading the petition to print off and sign. You then send it to the address on the page. Please do so by 30th November.

http://www.advocatesforanimals.org/d...ngpetition.pdf

Small wild mammals need your support.

The start of the Petition reads

"League Against Cruel Sports, Advocates for Animals, the International Otter Survival Fund, Hessilhead Wildlife Rescue and we, the undersigned, call on the Scottish Parliament to pass an Order under the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Act 2004 to ban the manufacture, sale, possession and use of all snares in Scotland."

"We believe that snares are cruel, indiscriminate traps. It is unacceptable that they are still being used to capture and kill Scotland’s animals. We seek a ban on snares as a matter of urgency."

Annabel

[kshotton45]

I've printed one off , I'll get the family to sign it and will certainly send it off. But, I really think they would get a better response if they organised an online petition like most organisations. It would carry just as much weight as a paper based one.
Anyway let's hope they're successful.

Keith.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by kshotton45

I've printed one off , I'll get the family to sign it and will certainly send it off. But, I really think they would get a better response if they organised an online petition like most organisations. It would carry just as much weight as a paper based one.
Anyway let's hope they're successful.

Keith.

a lot of organisations (particularly the govt) count a petition as 1 peice of corespondence regardless of how many names there are on it - you are better off having a form letter for people to download sign and send individually

[flowerofedin]

There have been postcards going around. I'm not sure when, but I sent one last year. Thanks for this. We really appreciate it. I shall send the link for this thread to Jo

Annabel

[kshotton45]

A petition signed by 1000 people is a petition signed by 1000 people wether or not it's on 1 sheet or 1000 sheets. Surely it's simple maths?

Keith.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by kshotton45

A petition signed by 1000 people is a petition signed by 1000 people wether or not it's on 1 sheet or 1000 sheets. Surely it's simple maths?

Keith.

to you and me yes , but to the govt - however many signatures there are , or how many pages if it comes in one envelope/email then its one piece of correspondence, unless of course it is in praise or support of their policies then different metaphysical rules aply.

remember the saying about lies, dam lies , and statistics

[kshotton45]

Originally Posted by eeyore

to you and me yes , but to the govt - however many signatures there are , or how many pages if it comes in one envelope/email then its one piece of correspondence, unless of course it is in praise or support of their policies then different metaphysical rules aply.

remember the saying about lies, dam lies , and statistics

O.K

Let's not hijack the thread by Flowerofedin as it's for a worthwhile cause........


League Against Cruel Sports, Advocates for Animals, the International Otter Survival Fund, Hessilhead Wildlife Rescue and we, the undersigned, call on the Scottish Parliament to pass an Order under the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Act 2004 to ban the manufacture, sale, possession and use of all snares in Scotland."

Let's all get signing !

Keith.

[flowerofedin]

Originally Posted by eeyore

to you and me yes , but to the govt - however many signatures there are , or how many pages if it comes in one envelope/email then its one piece of correspondence, unless of course it is in praise or support of their policies then different metaphysical rules aply.

remember the saying about lies, dam lies , and statistics

Eeyore,

I do believe you are criticising the messenger, not the boss. I don't have any say in what format it goes out in, but now I have emailed Jo with this link, I'm sure she will take on board any helpful suggestions which happen. Please note that there are several organisations involved.

Annabel

[flowerofedin]

Originally Posted by kshotton45

O.K

Let's not hijack the thread by Flowerofedin as it's for a worthwhile cause........


League Against Cruel Sports, Advocates for Animals, the International Otter Survival Fund, Hessilhead Wildlife Rescue and we, the undersigned, call on the Scottish Parliament to pass an Order under the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Act 2004 to ban the manufacture, sale, possession and use of all snares in Scotland."

Let's all get signing !

Keith.

Thanks Keith

Annabel

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by flowerofedin

Eeyore,

I do believe you are criticising the messenger, not the boss. I don't have any say in what format it goes out in, but now I have emailed Jo with this link, I'm sure she will take on board any helpful suggestions which happen. Please note that there are several organisations involved.

Annabel

annabel - i'm not critising anyone (other than the civil servant who formulated such a silly rule) - I am merely observing that if people want to make their views count they would be better off paraphrasing your petition into a letter and sending that to the govt.

[Deerhunter]

I am interested in how this ban will work ?

[flowerofedin]

Originally Posted by eeyore

annabel - i'm not critising anyone (other than the civil servant who formulated such a silly rule) - I am merely observing that if people want to make their views count they would be better off paraphrasing your petition into a letter and sending that to the govt.

Then tell that to Libby Anderson who happens to have a certain amount of experience in these matters...not me

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by flowerofedin

Then tell that to Libby Anderson who happens to have a certain amount of experience in these matters...not me

whatever - for the record i wasnt telling you i was responding to keiths post - as people do on forums - but hey lets not have an argument as believe it or not i was trying to be helpful.

[kshotton45]

Originally Posted by eeyore

whatever - for the record i wasnt telling you i was responding to keiths post - as people do on forums - but hey lets not have an argument as believe it or not i was trying to be helpful.

Here’s the text of the petition.

Petition to the Scottish Parliament BAN SNARES - THE SILENT KILLER IN THE COUNTRYSIDE
League Against Cruel Sports, Advocates for Animals, the International Otter Survival Fund, Hessilhead Wildlife Rescue and we, the
undersigned, call on the Scottish Parliament to pass an Order under the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Act 2004 to ban the manufacture, sale, possession and use of all snares in Scotland.
We believe that snares are cruel, indiscriminate traps. It is unacceptable that they are still being used to capture and kill Scotland’s animals. We seek a ban on snares as a matter of urgency.

It seems reasonable to me. How it would be enforced I don’t know. But anyone who cares about wildlife will not object to signing the petition as a means to highlight their objections to these heinous devices.
Can you make your position clearer? Do you think it’s a waste of time because no one can explain to you how a ban would work. Do you disagree with a ban? To people who care, snares are barbaric. Any move to ban their manufacture and/or use would be a good thing.

Now print out the form, take it down the pub, get your mates to sign it, PM me and I’ll send you the cost of your postage, then send it off.

Keith.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by kshotton45

Here’s the text of the petition.

Petition to the Scottish Parliament BAN SNARES - THE SILENT KILLER IN THE COUNTRYSIDE
League Against Cruel Sports, Advocates for Animals, the International Otter Survival Fund, Hessilhead Wildlife Rescue and we, the
undersigned, call on the Scottish Parliament to pass an Order under the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Act 2004 to ban the manufacture, sale, possession and use of all snares in Scotland.
We believe that snares are cruel, indiscriminate traps. It is unacceptable that they are still being used to capture and kill Scotland’s animals. We seek a ban on snares as a matter of urgency.

It seems reasonable to me. How it would be enforced I don’t know. But anyone who cares about wildlife will not object to signing the petition as a means to highlight their objections to these heinous devices.
Can you make your position clearer? Do you think it’s a waste of time because no one can explain to you how a ban would work. Do you disagree with a ban? To people who care, snares are barbaric. Any move to ban their manufacture and/or use would be a good thing.

Now print out the form, take it down the pub, get your mates to sign it, PM me and I’ll send you the cost of your postage, then send it off.

Keith.

i'm not sure why i'm being shot at here - i dont object to the petition at all - all i was saying is that petetitions arent an effective way of getting your viewpoint over to the government , much better to encourage each concerned person to write or email individually.

frankly tho afora are whistling in the wind - even if they manage to prevent the formal manufacture of snares anyone with a piece of wire can still mke one in less than a minuite , and how will they be detected ? is a huge police force dedicated only to finding and reporting snares going to fall out of the sky ?

[The Woodman]

Why just Scotland - why not nationally?

New petition - new squabbling?

[flowerofedin]

Yes, I agree, it should be nationally, but again this is out of my hands... So let's all just get on with it and sign. Where Scotland takes the lead, surely the rest of Britain will follow.

And Eeyore, I wasn't expecting it to be paper-based either, but there it is. If you can't afford the stamp PM me.

Annabel

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Printed off, signed, handed around and will be in the post as soon as the post strike finishes.
I think it's good to have a paper petition again.

Lets not forget the purpose of the petition is the main topic, and not how it's been managed.

Good luck with it Annabel, lets hope it works and the rest of the UK joins in as well.

BWD

[almostnormal]

Originally Posted by Deerhunter

I am interested in how this ban will work ?

i don't think it will, although it'd be nice to be proven wrong! the ban on Fox hunting hasn't worked particularly well, there are too many loopholes, and there won't be enough enforcement available to make sure a snare ban is successful. it'd have to be police enforced and i don't know how your local force is doing but ours struggles as it is, i reckon searching out illegal snares would be too much for our single solitary wildlife officer. and as previously mentioned in this thread illegal snares are easy to make (you can google it and bring up approx 400 decent and legal sites with clear instructions and diagrams), and unless you know what you're looking for, virtually impossible to locate. snaring isn't something thats exetremely visible to the public either (no people in red coats on horses with hundreds of dogs), so it'll be difficult to get enough people on board and make an impact.

[flowerofedin]

Originally Posted by almostnormal

i don't think it will, although it'd be nice to be proven wrong! the ban on Fox hunting hasn't worked particularly well, there are too many loopholes, and there won't be enough enforcement available to make sure a snare ban is successful. it'd have to be police enforced and i don't know how your local force is doing but ours struggles as it is, i reckon searching out illegal snares would be too much for our single solitary wildlife officer. and as previously mentioned in this thread illegal snares are easy to make (you can google it and bring up approx 400 decent and legal sites with clear instructions and diagrams), and unless you know what you're looking for, virtually impossible to locate. snaring isn't something thats exetremely visible to the public either (no people in red coats on horses with hundreds of dogs), so it'll be difficult to get enough people on board and make an impact.

The ban on hunting with dogs was one of AfA's as well, but that's neither here nor there. The aristocrats just don't seem to want their fun spoiled, and if that means being cruel to animals then never mind the rest of us. Has anyone thought of reporting these websites to the appropriate bodies?????

Annabel

[kshotton45]

Originally Posted by almostnormal

i don't think it will, although it'd be nice to be proven wrong! the ban on Fox hunting hasn't worked particularly well, there are too many loopholes, and there won't be enough enforcement available to make sure a snare ban is successful. it'd have to be police enforced and i don't know how your local force is doing but ours struggles as it is, i reckon searching out illegal snares would be too much for our single solitary wildlife officer. and as previously mentioned in this thread illegal snares are easy to make (you can google it and bring up approx 400 decent and legal sites with clear instructions and diagrams), and unless you know what you're looking for, virtually impossible to locate. snaring isn't something thats exetremely visible to the public either (no people in red coats on horses with hundreds of dogs), so it'll be difficult to get enough people on board and make an impact.

I think you may be missing the point. If a ban were to be put in place, it doesn’t mean that every police or wildlife officer would have to search for illegal snares. It just means that it’s illegal to use or manufacture them. If you’re caught using or manufacturing them, then you’re nicked. Why use finding instructions on the internet as a reason for not supporting a ban? You can get instructions off the internet on how to make bombs, but we’ve had to make bombing illegal.?
It all comes down to whether or not you want to see snares and snareing made illegal.

Remember - make a noise - make a difference . Keith.

[almostnormal]

who would you report them to? unfortunately snares aren't illegal yet, so making them isn't either. as it stands publishing instructions or guides online is a legal activity and no-one can stop them doing it if they so choose. and its a bit unfair to tar all aristocrats with the same brush. not all of them hunt, any more than all of them are loaded. and not everyone involved in hunting is an aristocrat.

and i haven't missed the point at all, i know exactly why people are trying to get snaring banned, just like i know that the police wouldn't be crawling through the bushes on their hands and knees trying to find illegal snares. but exactly how do you suppose anyone would ever get caught? most of the general public wouldn't know what a snare even looks like. this isn't an insult to them, its just a fact. nor was i suggesting that finding instructions for the manufacture was going to stop me supporting a ban on snares, or any other trapping method that isn't humane for that matter, as i have on numerous occasions. the point i was making, although apparently not clearly enough, was that no matter what we do, there will always be people who break laws in order to achieve whatever it is they want to, and its unlikely that a ban on snares will be adequately enforced.

[Esmo]

Almost normal,
In Post 19 you say :-
it'd have to be police enforced and i don't know how your local force is doing but ours struggles as it is, i reckon searching out illegal snares would be too much for our single solitary wildlife officer.

In Post 22 you say
i know that the police wouldn't be crawling through the bushes on their hands and knees trying to find illegal snares.

You do seem to have missed the point.
If you want snares banned, then sign the petition – enforcement is someone elses problem.
If you don’t want them banned, then no problem, do nothing.
But please, there are people who care about our wildlife and how it’s treated. Don’t put them down. They mean well and should be encouraged.

P.S. Keith, I like you’re saying “ Make a noise – make a difference “