Petition - Snaring in Scotland

[Amylou]

Originally Posted by hunterswind

.Snares did the trick had 3 vixens and a dog within the week and the lamb kills stopped

A dog...? Was it a wild dog or a pet dog? If it was a pet dog gone astray did you find out where it was from? Im just asking btw. Im on the fence about this whole subject as i know yuo need to protect your flock. But i dont like snarea. Shooting is better.

[Ukwildlifeo]

Originally Posted by Amylou

A dog...? Was it a wild dog or a pet dog? If it was a pet dog gone astray did you find out where it was from? Im just asking btw. Im on the fence about this whole subject as i know yuo need to protect your flock. But i dont like snarea. Shooting is better.

dog=male fox

[Amylou]

Ah right. Wasnt clear! (well to someone like me who see's pet dogs more than fox dogs)

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo

woops apologies for the bad maths there. The factors you mention would make sense too. A small fox probably wouldn't take on a protective mother, but equally a large strong fox with little other food would have a go at an unprotected lamb. But is 7 out of 1400 that significant, surely loses to illness/cold etc are worse? or am I wrong?

possibly - but we dont know for sure how many sheep hunterswind has - it may be quite a small flock (many are less than 100) , in that case the loss of seven lambs would be between 6 and 10%

also its not the numbers as a proportion of the whole flock that matters so much as the proportion of lambs born - especially as many sheep farmers make most of their money on breeding for sale.

[flowerofedin]

Right, let's start from the beginning, shall we? 1) Yes, even sheep, cows, bulls, rams and horses get caught in these evil, primitive and inhumane traps. They suffer too. 2) The suffering is intense. Ever thought that animals suffer pain too? ...Oh yes. 3) It is banned in most other European Countries. Only the UK stands alone. Man's untold selfishness has no place in a civilised society and... HANGING IS STILL LEGAL IN SCOTLAND

Annabel

[Dogghound]

After reading this thread, i think its clear some posters might benifit by making their own forum called wildaboutfarming, because they arnt wildaboutbritain or its wildlife just cutting costs to farming. Its sad, this thread should be about aiding the ban for these awful things. I for one think they should be banned. Foxes arnt the main cause of lamb deaths.

[eeyore]

Stopped snares have - suprisingly - a stop which gives them a minimum diameter - this stops them from tightening to suffocation point (the idea being to hold the fox until it can be shot rather than to strangle it), and also stops larger animals from being caught by the foot , and smaller ones being caught at all.

Also a responsible keeper/farmer/warden etc checks his line twice a day - so long as this best practice is followed (which it is in most cases) then snaring is as humane as any pest control can be - yes it isnt very nice but then neither is loosing your job / house/ livelehood by allowing your animals to be killed without limit by the local fox population.

the use of locking snares (which can only tighten) is already banned, and bad practice such as not checking snare lines is also illegal under the animal cruelty laws.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

After reading this thread, i think its clear some posters might benifit by making their own forum called wildaboutfarming, because they arnt wildaboutbritain or its wildlife just cutting costs to farming. Its sad, this thread should be about aiding the ban for these awful things. I for one think they should be banned. Foxes arnt the main cause of lamb deaths.

But a lot of farmers are also interested in wildlife and are perfectly entitled to express thier views on any topic which comes up on these boards - I am actually not a farmer but work in conservation and sometimes have at points in my career had to engage in fox control to protect schedule one ground nesting birds.

I am also opposed to the ban because it is unworkable and impossible to police.

A fact of forum life is that people arent going to agree - and suggesting that everyone who doesnt agree with a particular view point should leave is ridiculous - How would you feel if it was suggested that this thread shows that some people should leave and start a forum entitled wildaboutanimalrights because they arent in touch with the realities of the countryside. I'm not actually suggesting any such thing but I doubt you'd be very happy if someone did.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by eeyore

Stopped snares have - suprisingly - a stop which gives them a minimum diameter - this stops them from tightening to suffocation point (the idea being to hold the fox until it can be shot rather than to strangle it), and also stops larger animals from being caught by the foot , and smaller ones being caught at all.

So the fox is just going to sit there with the snare round its neck etc and not move? I think the fact the fox will be pulling like hell to escape will cause considerable damge and stress. Perhaps the others have been banned but these should too.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

So the fox is just going to sit there with the snare round its neck etc and not move? I think the fact the fox will be pulling like hell to escape will cause considerable damge and stress. Perhaps the others have been banned but these should too.

Actually my experience is that one a fox has pulled a few times and realised that it cant get away it does indeed sit down and wait. (the oxford university wildcru used a stopped snare to capture foxes to be radio tagged and released and this was also their experience)

rabbits and hares will indeed run in circles and strangle themselves but foxes appear to be intelligent enough not to do this.

No form of pest control is ever going to be pleasant - the most humane is probably shooting by expert marksmen or control by a long dog running down a lamp beam, but even these arent nice, pleasant or fluffy - however the harsh reality is that foxes do sometimes need to be controlled.