Petition - Snaring in Scotland

[muldonach]

Originally Posted by stripee

The Scottish government will take all views into consideration, eeyore, I expect, and come to their decision. Which will probably be sensible. .............. I was reading only yesterday in the doc's surgery a rubbishing of the RSPCA by Country Life. OK maybe they get some things wrong, but they also do some good. Is everyone supposed to consider these mainstream organisations as extremist now???

I am afraid I do not share your confidence in the rationality or sensibility of the Scottish Parliament on matters like this. They took all views into consideration on the question of tail docking for example and in their wisdom chose to ignore all rational arguments for the exemption of working dogs, as a result there is now a steady stream of spaniels for adult tail amputations.

I rather suspect that on this question, as with others, any rationality will go out the window and political self interest will rule.

regards
mac

[muldonach]

Originally Posted by eeyore

I certainly wouldnt consider the RSPCA an extremist organisation, but then their stance on snaring is pretty much the same as mine (ie only stopped snares and only to be used when other methods of control arent possible, and to be set in a responsible manner), as an organisation they have their feet on the ground

A very logical post and one that I can share quite a biit of common ground with.

Snaring should not be seen as an either/or scenario, it is normally used to provide a sanitary cordon around the boundary of a sensitive area, or localised protection round a hotspot such as a release pen, lambing field or nesting area, and is complimentary to other methods such as lamping.

The main advantage of snares is that they are there and working 24/7 and their purpose is to prevent problems from foxes arising in the first place.

Regards
mac

[flowerofedin]

Originally Posted by stripee

I agree, eeyore, with most of what you say. It is hard to disagree, as another said on this thread, you are the voice of reason on many things The Scots have usually been very sensible in their law making. It is a pity that wildlife has to pay the price for human mis-management and greediness.

Seems strange though that as the date of decision gets closer, eeyore defends his beloved snares with increasing vigour, knowing that although he thinks he has explained what should be, the reality is very, very different. Is he running scared? Only time will tell what the decision is. Public reasoning would suggest that a ban is in the air. Neither do I believe this hogwash about dogs needing treatment for broken tails... This is scare tactics, and I won't have it. AfA is not an extremist group.

[hunterswind]

Spoke personaly to someone in the know today. The farming / shooting lobby has won so far

[willing to learn]

Originally Posted by flowerofedin

Seems strange though that as the date of decision gets closer, eeyore defends his beloved snares with increasing vigour, knowing that although he thinks he has explained what should be, the reality is very, very different. Is he running scared? Only time will tell what the decision is. Public reasoning would suggest that a ban is in the air. Neither do I believe this hogwash about dogs needing treatment for broken tails... This is scare tactics, and I won't have it. AfA is not an extremist group.

Its not hogwash at all I personally have seen more poor Springer spaniels and cockers, than I care to remember with infections so serious ans severe theres been no alternative but to amputate their tails. (A quick painless dock at 3 days or before. As at this stage they feel little pain as their nervous system is not fully developed),Would save major surgery on a gangrenous tail.
But there is a up side vets make even more money. never mind the poor dogs suffering. This is FACT
Regards
Colin

[hunterswind]

This topic is going away from the snare thing but I have to agree Tail docking ban is a big mistake and I think the law in Scotland might be changed soon. Tails are still being docked up here all you need is a vet in Southern Ireland to say hes done the job and give him £50.00 simple Make a law Mr Blair or Brown and we will get round it !!!!!!!!!!!! to many loopholes to keep people happy !!!!!!!

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by flowerofedin

Seems strange though that as the date of decision gets closer, eeyore defends his beloved snares with increasing vigour, knowing that although he thinks he has explained what should be, the reality is very, very different. Is he running scared? Only time will tell what the decision is. Public reasoning would suggest that a ban is in the air. Neither do I believe this hogwash about dogs needing treatment for broken tails... This is scare tactics, and I won't have it. AfA is not an extremist group.

a) Firstly "beloved snares" - as my position is that snaring should only be used as a last resort , and then only stopped snates should be used this is hardly an accurate description.

b) I have explained the situation as it is - unlike many animal rights activists i dont view the countryside through rose tinted glasses.

c) I havent actually been defending the position with increased vigour - merely replying to points that have been made - I could care less about the deadline - amongst other things i am in england so this ban wont effect me even if the scottish executive is foolish enough to bring it into law - which i somehow doubt

d) It seems strange that you are constantly seeking to personalise this debate and make it about personalities and emotion rather than facts - perhaps this could be because facts to support the ban are in short supply especially as most of those who oppose the ban on here have first hand experience of the use of snares for pest control and are thus in a strong position to know what the facts actually are.

e) and finally I dont recall saying that AfA were an extremist group, but the fact remains that the animal rights cause in general is one that attracts a lot of extremists and some groups have distinctly crossed the line from activism to crime (for example exhuming and kidnapping the dead relatives of scientists to further the campaign against vivisection). I used to be very active with lynx when i was younger but I find the whole slide of the sector into direct action and propoganda so abhorrent that i have stepped back from the whole animal rights movement prefering instead to focus my energies in the countryside where it is possible to make a real difference on the ground.

[Ukwildlifeo]

Originally Posted by flowerofedin

Seems strange though that as the date of decision gets closer, eeyore defends his beloved snares with increasing vigour, knowing that although he thinks he has explained what should be, the reality is very, very different. Is he running scared? Only time will tell what the decision is. Public reasoning would suggest that a ban is in the air. Neither do I believe this hogwash about dogs needing treatment for broken tails... This is scare tactics, and I won't have it. AfA is not an extremist group.

Im sorry -what are you on about!? Why are you accusing other people of running scared? You haven't answered anybodys questions, so its a bit hypocritical to do that.
Im sorry to say your not doing the AfAs reputation any favours.

Going back to the topic I don't think anyone on here wants to use snares, but in some cases, where there are rare ground nesting birds (unfortunately rare due to other man made factors) for example, we need to give them a hand, by protecting them from predators and guns would scare them off, so what alternative is there? let the birds go extinct?

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo

Im
Going back to the topic I don't think anyone on here wants to use snares, but in some cases, where there are rare ground nesting birds (unfortunately rare due to other man made factors) for example, we need to give them a hand, by protecting them from predators and guns would scare them off, so what alternative is there? let the birds go extinct?

Thats exactly what i am getting at - I would rather not have to kill anything but sometimes it is necessary ( though i suspect the answer you will get is that "we should let nature takes its course" , which would be fine except for mankind screwing the habitat up in the first place)

This is equally true of most keepers and farmers - they arent in it for blood lust but to protect their livelyhoods, jobs, homes etc (obviously there are a few who are in it purely to hurt animals but as we saw on the utube baiting thread earlier these people are roundly condemed even by most farmers and keepers)

The bottom line is , as we saw higher up, that this isnt just about snares - some activists belive that you shouldnt kill anything under any circumstances, which is all very well in a nice cute disneyfied rose tinted universe , but doesnt stand up in the cold light of day.

[hunterswind]

Birds or Lambs Foxes dont mind. Yes we can hunt them in Scotland due to Labour loopholes shoot them, dig them with dogs again thanks to Labour so why not use the best tool for the job ? the snare !!!!!!!!!!

[hunterswind]

Public reasoning would suggest that a ban is in the air. Neither do I believe this hogwash about dogs needing treatment for broken tails... This is scare tactics, and I won't have it. AfA is not an extremist group.
__________________

What planet are you on Miss Edinburgh

Dogs suffer due to the Labour law but now that Labour has gone we will get docking back soon

[muldonach]

Originally Posted by flowerofedin

.......... Neither do I believe this hogwash about dogs needing treatment for broken tails... This is scare tactics, and I won't have it. AfA is not an extremist group.

Our spaniel sired a litter of 6 pups a year ago, most of which went to working homes, 2 of them have already been for tail amputations, one of which required further remedial attention following the initial operation. Not scare tactics and not hogwash at all but a matter of record at a vet's surgery I'm afraid.

Cheers
mac

[demicav]

Originally Posted by hunterswind

This topic is going away from the snare thing but I have to agree Tail docking ban is a big mistake and I think the law in Scotland might be changed soon. Tails are still being docked up here all you need is a vet in Southern Ireland to say hes done the job and give him £50.00 simple Make a law Mr Blair or Brown and we will get round it !!!!!!!!!!!! to many loopholes to keep people happy !!!!!!!

And people like you will continue to flout the law.

[hunterswind]

We ARE STILL DOCKING SPANIELS TAILS !!!!!!!!!!!!! and from tonight we will still be working Snares thanks to the brilliant SNP who have listened to reason and voted against a ban !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I vote conservative for general elections but SNP for our own Scottish goverment, Just glad I live up here and we sent down Gordon to rule you tee hee

[hunterswind]

By the way Law and countryside dont mix as we never see the police out here anyway

[dog stone]

Originally Posted by hunterswind

We ARE STILL DOCKING SPANIELS TAILS !!!!!!!!!!!!! and from tonight we will still be working Snares thanks to the brilliant SNP who have listened to reason and voted against a ban !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I vote conservative for general elections but SNP for our own Scottish goverment, Just glad I live up here and we sent down Gordon to rule you tee hee

Surely you want him back now, don't you, please, please!

[hunterswind]

No way Gordon was a gift to you it would be rude to send him back !!!!!!!!

[willing to learn]

I think Gordon's going to sink he is treading water in a big pond, and a big ROCK has been dropped on his shoulder's glug glug glug
Regards
Colin

[willing to learn]

Originally Posted by willing to learn

I think Gordon's going to sink he is treading water in a big pond, and a big ROCK has been dropped on his shoulder's glug glug glug
Regards
Colin

The question is whos going to pull him out Now let me think

[hunterswind]

Maybe someone ????????????????? but cant thing of any country people just now. or home owners or old folk or or anyone realy ha maybe people from other countrys that come over here to catch and eat all our fresh water fish and other wildlife

[flowerofedin]

Originally Posted by hunterswind

We ARE STILL DOCKING SPANIELS TAILS !!!!!!!!!!!!! and from tonight we will still be working Snares thanks to the brilliant SNP who have listened to reason and voted against a ban !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I vote conservative for general elections but SNP for our own Scottish goverment, Just glad I live up here and we sent down Gordon to rule you tee hee

Not for much longer. We'll see to that.