Petition - Snaring in Scotland

[kshotton45]

Originally Posted by almostnormal

i don't think it will, although it'd be nice to be proven wrong! the ban on fox hunting hasn't worked particularly well, there are too many loopholes, and there won't be enough enforcement available to make sure a snare ban is successful. it'd have to be police enforced and i don't know how your local force is doing but ours struggles as it is, i reckon searching out illegal snares would be too much for our single solitary wildlife officer. and as previously mentioned in this thread illegal snares are easy to make (you can google it and bring up approx 400 decent and legal sites with clear instructions and diagrams), and unless you know what you're looking for, virtually impossible to locate. snaring isn't something thats exetremely visible to the public either (no people in red coats on horses with hundreds of dogs), so it'll be difficult to get enough people on board and make an impact.

I think you may be missing the point. If a ban were to be put in place, it doesn’t mean that every police or wildlife officer would have to search for illegal snares. It just means that it’s illegal to use or manufacture them. If you’re caught using or manufacturing them, then you’re nicked. Why use finding instructions on the internet as a reason for not supporting a ban? You can get instructions off the internet on how to make bombs, but we’ve had to make bombing illegal.?
It all comes down to whether or not you want to see snares and snareing made illegal.

Remember - make a noise - make a difference . Keith.

[almostnormal]

who would you report them to? unfortunately snares aren't illegal yet, so making them isn't either. as it stands publishing instructions or guides online is a legal activity and no-one can stop them doing it if they so choose. and its a bit unfair to tar all aristocrats with the same brush. not all of them hunt, any more than all of them are loaded. and not everyone involved in hunting is an aristocrat.

and i haven't missed the point at all, i know exactly why people are trying to get snaring banned, just like i know that the police wouldn't be crawling through the bushes on their hands and knees trying to find illegal snares. but exactly how do you suppose anyone would ever get caught? most of the general public wouldn't know what a snare even looks like. this isn't an insult to them, its just a fact. nor was i suggesting that finding instructions for the manufacture was going to stop me supporting a ban on snares, or any other trapping method that isn't humane for that matter, as i have on numerous occasions. the point i was making, although apparently not clearly enough, was that no matter what we do, there will always be people who break laws in order to achieve whatever it is they want to, and its unlikely that a ban on snares will be adequately enforced.

[Esmo]

Almost normal,
In Post 19 you say :-
it'd have to be police enforced and i don't know how your local force is doing but ours struggles as it is, i reckon searching out illegal snares would be too much for our single solitary wildlife officer.

In Post 22 you say
i know that the police wouldn't be crawling through the bushes on their hands and knees trying to find illegal snares.

You do seem to have missed the point.
If you want snares banned, then sign the petition – enforcement is someone elses problem.
If you don’t want them banned, then no problem, do nothing.
But please, there are people who care about our wildlife and how it’s treated. Don’t put them down. They mean well and should be encouraged.

P.S. Keith, I like you’re saying “ Make a noise – make a difference “

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by Esmo

Almost normal,
In Post 19 you say :-
it'd have to be police enforced and i don't know how your local force is doing but ours struggles as it is, i reckon searching out illegal snares would be too much for our single solitary wildlife officer.

In Post 22 you say
i know that the police wouldn't be crawling through the bushes on their hands and knees trying to find illegal snares.

You do seem to have missed the point.
If you want snares banned, then sign the petition – enforcement is someone elses problem.
If you don’t want them banned, then no problem, do nothing.
But please, there are people who care about our wildlife and how it’s treated. Don’t put them down. They mean well and should be encouraged.

P.S. Keith, I like you’re saying “ Make a noise – make a difference “

Enforcement is everyone's problem there are lot of crimes out there sadly!

I'm sure everyone is against snares here, probably the vast majority of the country is, a fact I'm sure the government is already aware of. A fact even the people who use them are probably aware of.

I'm not putting people down for caring I'm just pointing out that there are numerous viewpoints to the validity and purpose of petitions.

[Deerhunter]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

Enforcement is everyone's problem there are lot of crimes out there sadly!

I'm sure everyone is against snares here, probably the vast majority of the country is, a fact I'm sure the government is already aware of. A fact even the people who use them are probably aware of.

I'm not putting people down for caring I'm just pointing out that there are numerous viewpoints to the validity and purpose of petitions.

Good post !!

"There are a lot of crimes out there sadly"

Yes. Well over 3000 new criminal offences since Zanu labour came to power. So obviously enforcement is relevant.

It is pointless making laws unless there is at least a will to enforce them.

I am probably a rare person on this forum in so much as I am "against" snares but I use them.

I use them because the government encourages me to !!

They are indiscriminate and can lead to lengthy suffering.

Hunting is discriminate and is over quickly.

Silly, silly Margaret

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Esmo

Almost normal,
In Post 19 you say :-
it'd have to be police enforced and i don't know how your local force is doing but ours struggles as it is, i reckon searching out illegal snares would be too much for our single solitary wildlife officer.

In Post 22 you say
i know that the police wouldn't be crawling through the bushes on their hands and knees trying to find illegal snares.

You do seem to have missed the point.
If you want snares banned, then sign the petition – enforcement is someone elses problem.
If you don’t want them banned, then no problem, do nothing.
But please, there are people who care about our wildlife and how it’s treated. Don’t put them down. They mean well and should be encouraged.

P.S. Keith, I like you’re saying “ Make a noise – make a difference “

whats the point in a ban which isnt enforced ? - fine if you want to see snares banned then sign the petition , it wont acheive anything but hey it will make you feel better

But dont assume that those of us who realise that it is a pointless waste of time and effort dont care about wildlife - we do its just that i for one would prefer to see wildlife legislation adequately enforced - and the first step on that road is producing legislation which is actually enforcable - saying that enforcement is someone elses problem does nothing to encourage those charged with enforcing the law to take wildlife crime seriously.

and even if websites and instructions for making a snare could be banned - which they cant - it isnt difficult , takes about 30 seconds , and every poacher and gamekeeper in the land already knows how or can find someone who does. - and you cant ban the materials used in their production because that is essentially a bit of wire (picture wire, electrical flex etc) and a sharpened stick.

by all means campaign for wildlife to be treated better but it does help your chances of success if you opperate in the real world.

[almostnormal]

Originally Posted by Esmo

Almost normal,
In Post 19 you say :-
it'd have to be police enforced and i don't know how your local force is doing but ours struggles as it is, i reckon searching out illegal snares would be too much for our single solitary wildlife officer.

In Post 22 you say
i know that the police wouldn't be crawling through the bushes on their hands and knees trying to find illegal snares.

You do seem to have missed the point.
If you want snares banned, then sign the petition – enforcement is someone elses problem.
If you don’t want them banned, then no problem, do nothing.
But please, there are people who care about our wildlife and how it’s treated. Don’t put them down. They mean well and should be encouraged.

P.S. Keith, I like you’re saying “ Make a noise – make a difference “

er no, i haven't. my point was, and again apparently i haven't put it well, that in order to be successful a ban would need to be police enforced, which clearly isn't going to happen because there are not enough police to enforce it. even to attempt to catch some of them would require a huge amount of effort.

at no point have i suggested that anyone not sign the petition, which i have in fact already signed, and i wasn't putting anyone down, or indeed discouraging them. my apologies if that's how it read.

[flowerofedin]

The general point here is that snares are wrong and they need to be banned. I am delighted to be an active member of AfA and this forum, and I'm sorry I wen't off for a while but I'm back now.... for keeps. Anyway, that aside, Britain seems to be about the only country which hasn't banned snares. The Petition, be it paper-based or on-line is another obvious way to get things noticed by the Public, and even if it serves no other purpose than to put the Public in the picture, then it has served its purpose. I am sure we can get them lots of signatures before November 30th. A big Thankyou to all who have already signed, printed off and forwarded on to friends. That's the one great thing about the Internet. The more widely this is spread about, the better.

Annabel

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by Deerhunter

Good post !!

"There are a lot of crimes out there sadly"

Yes. Well over 3000 new criminal offences since Zanu labour came to power. So obviously enforcement is relevant.

It is pointless making laws unless there is at least a will to enforce them.

I am probably a rare person on this forum in so much as I am "against" snares but I use them.

I use them because the government encourages me to !!

They are indiscriminate and can lead to lengthy suffering.

Hunting is discriminate and is over quickly.

Silly, silly Margaret

I don't understand. Why do you need snares at all? What are you trying to catch?

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

I don't understand. Why do you need snares at all? What are you trying to catch?

i would imagine its foxes as it is now illegal to hunt them with dogs (not that i ever accepted that as a good way of controlling them anyway) and more sailiently to use a longdog and a lamp if you dont have a firearm or dont have the time to be out every night with a lamp and a rifle snares are the only govt approved option

I know at least one wildlife trust which uses snares to control foxes - and actually so long as they are free running and checked twice daily it isnt that inhumane - at least with foxes which are inteligent enough to sit quietly once they realise they cant get away - the problem is the collateral damage in hares, deer (caught be the hoof) , domestic pets etc etc