Small or Holly blue, ID needed please

[welsh.lensman]

I put this in the Gallery as a Small blue, but Dreamer believes it could be a Holly blue, can anyone confirm the ID please, many thanks.

[earthdragon64]

The underwings do look very similar, a bit more information about the sighting may help. Where and when did you see it and in what sort of habitat? Did you get a look at the upperwings at all?

[Lance Morgan]

Size would be an obvious indication. It is a Holly Blue.

[earthdragon64]

Originally Posted by Lance Morgan

Size would be an obvious indication. It is a Holly Blue.

Size is something that can be difficult to judge in a photograph with nothing in there to compare it to.

I'm not convinced either way at the moment, more information is needed.

[welsh.lensman]

Thanks for your responses so far and I'll try and give you as much information as I can remember.
As for location it was on the South Wales coast about 2 miles from the sea, Habitat was a wide path running through forestry with the occasional open glade with low growing shrubs and long grass, this particular species was amongst the grass.
As for its size it must have been about 15-17 mm long.
I hope this helps.

[aeshna5]

As Lance says, it's a Holly Blue!

[GuyF]

I think that it's a Small Blue, the black spots seem to have a noticeable pale ring around them which Holly Blues don't tend to have, and also the spots on the forewing look fairly small and rounded, whereas in Holly Blues they usually appear as larger streaks.
Guy

[ChrisJB]

Originally Posted by aeshna5

As Lance says, it's a Holly Blue!

I agree.

Regards, Chris

[Naturenutz]

Hi,Is it not a slightly odd place to find holly blue's . in grass ?. When you say they were in the grass,how many did you see may i ask? Maybe there were other blues in the grass and a stray holly blue (your pic if it is holly blue). Just by habitat,i would not expect to find many holly blues in grass ,they prefer to be higher up in shrubs and as far as im aware do not form colonies in grass.i think they are more wanderers like the whites but im happy to be corrected

[Fourwings]

Thats a Holly Blue Wayne, not seen that many this year!

[Dreamer]

here is a good comparison

Google Image Result for http://piccies.flybywire.org.uk/ButterfliesMoths/2006/20060606/SmallBlue6.jpg

holly blue from me

[welsh.lensman]

My first Holly blue thanks.

And thank you everyone for your contributions to this thread, and a special thank you Dreamer for that fantastic link, I've added it to my favourates.

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by Naturenutz

Hi,Is it not a slightly odd place to find holly blue's . in grass ?. When you say they were in the grass,how many did you see may i ask? Maybe there were other blues in the grass and a stray holly blue (your pic if it is holly blue). Just by habitat,i would not expect to find many holly blues in grass ,they prefer to be higher up in shrubs and as far as im aware do not form colonies in grass.i think they are more wanderers like the whites but im happy to be corrected

It was seen in a woodland glade which sounds like Holly Blue habitat to me. They often come to the ground to take up salts,etc + found on damp mud, droppings, etc.

[GuyF]

Well I still think it's a Small Blue
Here are a couple of shots from the Gallery to try and illustrate the points I made earlier. First one of your Small Blue shots, note the pale rings to the spots and the fairly small dots on the forewing underside.

And here's a Holly Blue from Jon which lacks obvious pale rings to the spots and shows the dashes on the underside of the forewing.

Also Holly Blues tend to have a fairly uniform metallic bluey silver underside, whereas in Small Blues there is more of a contrast between the metallic blue at the base of the wings and the greyish colour on the rest of the underside, although this feature can depend a lot on the condition of the butterfly!
Guy

[asheleaf]

Originally Posted by GuyF

Well I still think it's a Small Blue
Here are a couple of shots from the Gallery to try and illustrate the points I made earlier. First one of your Small Blue shots, note the pale rings to the spots and the fairly small dots on the forewing underside.

And here's a Holly Blue from Jon which lacks obvious pale rings to the spots and shows the dashes on the underside of the forewing.

Also Holly Blues tend to have a fairly uniform metallic bluey silver underside, whereas in Small Blues there is more of a contrast between the metallic blue at the base of the wings and the greyish colour on the rest of the underside, although this feature can depend a lot on the condition of the butterfly!
Guy

i'll second that

Ashe