Help me ID?

[Phototoxin]

Could anyone help me ID these two butterflies. I spotted them in Abingdon just south of Oxford and I want to record them in my notebook but I do not know what they are !! I have tried to determine it but the closest I get is a Burgandy Duke for the first one which doesn't seem right compared to the reference pictures. To me it seems more like a speckled wood butterfly. But I would like someone else's opinion as my reference has a different colour although there is a small note wiht a different coloured wing saying 'southern race' The time and area fit the description.

Anyway here's the first one - same butterfly just 2 different pics


and the second one whcih may be of the same species... im not that sure!



You can click on the pictures for bigger ones though they have been cropped so aren't of a really high quality.

[Jenny W]

Hi,

Both Speckled Wood, Pararge aegeria.

[Phototoxin]

Thank you... I thinking I was a bit confused as the southern species is a varient of the more northerly speicies.

[Dogghound]

They are both females, although the top photo shows a specimen with a damaged wing. There is a darker variant in Scotland f.oblita. The variant in england is the same throughout although there is large variation between the two generations. With 2nd gen specimens being darker in colour.

[Phototoxin]

Oh thanks! I thought that they were males!!! Brill !

[Dogghound]

An easy way to sex them is females have larger areas of yellow on them. Males tend to have smaller patches.

[petereeles]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

An easy way to sex them is females have larger areas of yellow on them. Males tend to have smaller patches.

First I've heard of that. And I also think that, based on the size of the abdomen (the main indicator), they're both males. In the first photo, the abdomen would be so weighed-down with eggs, that it would probably be touching the leaf! And in the second, the abdomen would be much wider than it is. And if either were a female that had laid their eggs, then they wouldn't look so pristine.

That's my theory

Cheers,

- Pete

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by petereeles

First I've heard of that. And I also think that, based on the size of the abdomen (the main indicator), they're both males. In the first photo, the abdomen would be so weighed-down with eggs, that it would probably be touching the leaf! And in the second, the abdomen would be much wider than it is. And if either were a female that had laid their eggs, then they wouldn't look so pristine.

That's my theory

Cheers,

- Pete

I can see that regarding butterflies I might as well just give up...as I am far less experienced than you

But what the heck ... the rings around the eye spots on the hind wings on the bottom image are distinctive enough in my opinion to call this a female. Males have far less of a border around these, first gen females are very distinctive in this respect. Im not sure if you can see enough of the abdomen or even gage the level of gravidity in this specimen. The top image I admit is harder to evaluate, especially with the damage to the wing, although my jizz was female but your abdominal theory may be correct here.