Hare Coursing and Lamping, Bull Crosses not Lurchers

[Little Mele]

Now the crops are down, lamping begins in earnest. I have had the misfortune to find two lamped deer, one with only its guts etc left behind and the other with broken legs in a ditch, dying a slow and agonising death. Only yesterday, I found a Ewe which had been chased by dogs, scattering it from its herd and again ending up in a bracken filled ditch, where she subsequently got entangled and was on the verge of death when I found her. Luckily I always carry two litres of sugar water, molassess and water and was able to rehydrate her and get her back on her feet and into the safety of a sheep pen.

Last year I was called out to a lamped badger which had been shot as she foraged for worms in the middle of a corn field which had been cut. She had nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. The cuprits also shot dead a hedgehog and a sea bird. The badger wasn't even one year old.

Many people on WAB have spoken about lurchers and greyhounds bringing down deer, but things have moved on. The running dogs are now crossed with the powerful bull terriers, (bull X's) this makes them the ultimate killing machine. They are fast and they are powerful, the heads and jaws on these dogs are massive. They are not illegal and are not classified as a dangerous dog, such as the American Pit Bull.

With regard to Hare Coursing, this is classed as Hunting a Wild Mammal with a dog, and the only way it can be killed by a dog is if it is injured. It is also illegal to first intentionally injure the hare in order to allow dogs to chase it. The hare can also be legally killed with a bird of prey.

The Hunting Act 2004 explains this in better detail.

Finally, I learn a great deal from an old gamekeeper, who's well over 80. He is a wealth of knowledge. But anyway he told me a tale about a shooting estate where one year, back in the 1960's, over 200 hares were shot. The shooters were very proud of their "bag", but the Estate owner, a Colonel, said, "Well done boys, you've shot over 200 hares, but you'll never get that number again". And sure enough the following year they took 90, and then subsequently only 45 hares. The men were perplexed and asked the Colonel why there was such a sharp decline in hare numbers, he replied, "Well boys, the year you shot over 200 hares, you took all the parents, so what did you expect?", So somewhere, there's a moral to this story about conservation, and a gentleman from County Down, wrote in the Countryman's Weekly 5 Oct 2011, ".....Surely the best people to protect any species on this planet are those whose interests lie with the species that needs protection? We need hare coursing events to be introduced, not banned ! Once that is done, the hare's survival will be guaranteed...."

The writer also suggests that farming methods, including the indiscrimate use of the combined harvester are to blame for the sharp decline in hare numbers. However, in England, there are wildlife margins around every field, and in Scotland, farming practices have changed so that the farmer begins harvesting from the inside out so that species such as the corncrake and other wildlife can make their escape.

THE HUNTING ACT 2004 - LEARN MORE ABOUT CHANGES TO THE HUNTING ACT. WHAT IS LEGAL AND WHAT IS NOT??

[epops]

one of
my lurchers a bull x brilliant little dog in fact he's as good as the little beddy x we have work well kind nature he know what to do when needed we are lucky enough to have permission on a few farms and have noticed that hares are making a come back excepton 1 farm whre the traveling community think its ok to dump a deerhound x or similar out the car then drive round to meet it the other side of the farm(but not if we see them) not the dogs fault but the damage they do to livestock,shocking it is and 1 or 2 round our way shoot dogs to kill!As for me cousing been there done that pre-ban not my scene,lamping thats ok but best of all working either the bull x or beddy x with ferrets the reason i got a bull is because id seen one my mates got working and was impressed

[dunlin]

Surely the best people to protect any species on this planet are those whose interests lie with the species that needs protection?

There's a lot of truth in that statement. My dad used to tell me about the red grouse on the heather moors near me flying from under his feet when he was a lad there where that many. The moor was managed for shooting then which it no longer is and now you'd be lucky to see half a dozen.

Last year I was called out to a lamped badger which had been shot as she foraged for worms in the middle of a corn field which had been cut. She had nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. The cuprits also shot dead a hedgehog and a sea bird. The badger wasn't even one year old.

Its mindless idiots like this that help to turn public opinion against hunting

[Brocakat]

Originally Posted by Little Mele

Finally, I learn a great deal from an old gamekeeper, who's well over 80. He is a wealth of knowledge. But anyway he told me a tale about a shooting estate where one year, back in the 1960's, over 200 hares were shot. The shooters were very proud of their "bag", but the Estate owner, a Colonel, said, "Well done boys, you've shot over 200 hares, but you'll never get that number again". And sure enough the following year they took 90, and then subsequently only 45 hares. The men were perplexed and asked the Colonel why there was such a sharp decline in hare numbers, he replied, "Well boys, the year you shot over 200 hares, you took all the parents, so what did you expect?", So somewhere, there's a moral to this story about conservation, and a gentleman from County Down, wrote in the Countryman's Weekly 5 Oct 2011, ".....Surely the best people to protect any species on this planet are those whose interests lie with the species that needs protection? We need hare coursing events to be introduced, not banned ! Once that is done, the hare's survival will be guaranteed...."

After the 40+ years passing since the end of the 1960's - it would be intersting indeed to see if there are regularly more than 45 hares taken / season, on that particular Estate.

In relation to established Hare Coursing Events taking place in England - I'm unsure or not whether other " imported " hares are released a week or two prior onto those Estates for the event, from other parts of the country, to make up a ' shortfall ' - so the Event doesn't fall flat & disappoint its followers, who might be tempted to give it a miss the following year.

Of course - if they are, it rather makes the Irishmans' suggestion irrelavant .


Apologies are due -IF this isn't the case.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Brocakat

In relation to established Hare Coursing Events taking place in England - I'm unsure or not whether other " imported " hares are released a week or two prior onto those Estates for the event, from other parts of the country, to make up a ' shortfall ' - so the Event doesn't fall flat & disappoint its followers, who might be tempted to give it a miss the following year.

Of course - if they are, it rather makes the Irishmans' suggestion irrelavant .


Apologies are due -IF this isn't the case.

Organised hare coursing is banned in the UK these days, but when it was still legal hares were only ever imported from other areas when disease had severely depleted stocks. I can only remember this being done once at Altcar, the site of the Waterloo Cup, the most famous (or infamous!) of all the Couring Club meetings. If I remember rightly the hares were brought in from elsewhere the autumn before the meeting (the Waterloo Cup was generally run in February), so the hares had plenty of time to get used to their surroundings. Contrary to popular belief, watching hares being slaughtered was never what coursing was about, so to run hares that weren't familiar with their surroundings would simply have resulted in kill after kill, rather than what the spectators considered a good course.

Cheers
Jonathan

[Meta menardi]

Slightly off subject, but when I used to go Beagling about 45 years ago, you used to see "packs" of Hares, and even once a Hare running in the pack with the Beagles. Kills were not common, the Hares were too darn fast! I wouldn't do it now, but then it seemed quite innocent, as indeed it was.

[Gelert]

Actually, bull crosses aren't really 'ultimate killing machines'. Mostly they're not really fast enough for hares and are bred for fox and badger (now illegal prey). It's easy to make them sound like monsters but the rescue I work with regularly rehomes ex working bull crosses in home environments where they settle well and become loyal and affectionate pets.

[Little Mele]

Sorry if my post gave the impression that the bull crosses are monsters. I am not sure if that is what I implied. The bull crosses are in fact very handsome dogs, and unless badly facially scarred have a beautiful, gentle face.

From the many meetings I attend with Wildlife Crime Officers and the RSPCA, I am informed that Bull Crosses are used to bring down deer, either for financial gain, or for sport. However it has also been said that “if it moves...kill it”, hence badger, fox, hare, sheep and even domestic pets can come into the equation.

Many of the dogs used in the cross are descendents from dogs bred in Ireland, including the very famous Red Hand of Ulster, a Champion Badger Dog EBT (English Bull Terrier). These dogs were bred for badgers and also dog fighting, which is another very indepth topic with many rules and regulations. A running dog crossed with an English Bull Terrier or a Pit Bull makes a very formidable combination.

Having been brought up in a household with greyhounds, I know for a fact that these dogs have the lovliest nature, so I am very pleased to read that the bull crosses are being successfully rehomed. Well done.

I think the link

game bred dogs pit bull terriers

may give a better insight into the breeding of these dogs, than I can.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Little Mele

However it has also been said that “if it moves...kill it”, hence badger, fox, hare, sheep and even domestic pets can come into the equation.

.

yep - a couple of years ago my collie dog was attacked by some variant of lurcher that had run from some (illegal it turns out) lampers operating in the valley below , i booted it off her before it could hurt her badly at which point is came at me but I managed to fight it off without being badly injured ( a combination of steel toed boots and a five cell maglight persuaded it that I wasn't to be messed with).

and a few years before that a keeper freind and I also came across a bunch of idiots who'd set their dogs on a horse and foal - we had to shoot one of the dogs to get it off the foal while the culprits dispersed ( part of me would have liked to shoot the owners rather than the dogs ) - The foal died, and the mare needed multiple stitches but eventually recovered.

Dont get me wrong I have several freinds who run long dogs for rabbits etc and I have no problem with the dogs or with legitimate hunting - it is just the out of control idiot fraternity who spoil it for everyone.

[Little Mele]

I agree. My dad bred greyhounds and any rabbits caught were essential for the pot. Being a miner and on strike, meant that it was either rabbit stew or starvation. And in those days, miners on strike were deprived of any social benefits.

A few years ago I had a Parson Jack Russell which was attacked by two powerful bull terriers. The owner, a woman, had let them off the lead and after they had attacked my terrier, she offered to pay for the vets fees but insisted her two dogs were fine with children, it was just other dogs that they killed. mmmm, like that made it alright !!