Hunting

[Fauna]

Originally Posted by Julie82

. I've never ran over anything, or killed anything either by accident or on purpose.

Are you sure about that...never trod an a snail, wormed/deflead a pet, poured hot water over ants, swallowed a fly

Please if you are going to contribute to this thread keep it realistic. There are people who hunt for many reasons and in many ways. The vast majority that hunt (that i know), respect the quarry they are hunting. They are far from a danger to society.

Though, can the same be said for animal rights activists??

[salukiwhippet]

You say I'm a danger to society, but you're the one who wants to kill people who shoot animals some twisted logic there.

And my DVLA comment was supposed to suggest that if you have an urge to commit murder as strong as you claim, maybe you shouldn't be trusted with a deadly weapon in the form of a motor vehicle.

So you've never killed anything? So you have never cleaned a toilet? Taken antibiotics? Washed your hands? Eaten meat (and don't say it doesn't count if you don't kill it yourself, you're just as responsible!)?

James

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Julie82

Frankly in my own, and many mental health experts opinions', any person capable of cruelty to an animal for personal gratification is a danger to society.
.

you are undoubtedly right about that - but deliberate cruelty is about inflicting unecessary pain viz the sick ooooos who torture cats, nail swans to trees, and what have you.

most of the hunters i know would agree absolutely that these sick individuals are a menance to society.

however you are suffering under the common "anti" misaprehension that it is inherently cruel to kill.

If i shoot a fox it doesnt know anything about it until the moment the frangible round takes it in the head - it then doesnt have a chance to know anything about it as it has a fist sized hole in its head, and while am not going to say i never miss , as obviously all marksmen miss sometimes, I can say with absolute confidence that i never maim - if i hit i kill clean.

The same applies to a fox or rabbit taken by a long dog - one moment it doesnt know its there - next moment bang it has a broken neck and it incapable of feeling anything.

Granted - fox hunting with hounds the prolonged chase over may well cause a degree of stress - and i dont actually support the "hunt" as an effective fox control measure anyway.

and finally you are wrong in the assertion that most hunters (in the wider sense) do it purely for personal gratification - most are actually engaged in predator control (all of mine was while employed by a wildlife trust), and while some may feel a degree of personal satisfaction of a job well done this is not the same thing.

As we have said several times before if some sick person purely wanted to torture and kill animals there are far easier ways than going hunting.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Julie82

Those people are a disgrace to society. It would be far more entertaining to see a pack of hounds chase one of those creeps for miles.

so you would enjoy seeing a human being being chased by a pack of hounds - because you dont agree with their ethics - hmm and you're worried about others being a threat to society

[Nick1986]

i agree with waht julie is saying actually. humnans are meant to have a brain and feel compassion for other living things. how is this the case when you have people'enjoying' seeing a fox being ripped to pieces and then using the excuse that the fox is a pest. dont give me that balonry. its digusting and belongs in the past

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Nick1986

i agree with waht julie is saying actually. humnans are meant to have a brain and feel compassion for other living things. how is this the case when you have people'enjoying' seeing a fox being ripped to pieces and then using the excuse that the fox is a pest. dont give me that balonry. its digusting and belongs in the past

In my case its to do with feeling compassion for the species the fox was eating -(in this particular case - stone curlew).

As i said above i can fully empathise with the foxes position - its hungry , eggs and young birds are an easy catch, no problem - its not to blame its just being a fox

but that doesnt mean I should let it kill unhindered , especially where the fox population is seriously high because they have no predators except for man.

The human ability to use the brain also enables us to reason logically , and not to act from pure emotion. Therefore it should be practical to comprehend that although emotionally one might feel sorry for the fox and empathise with its plight, in a rational intellectual level control is the only reasonable solution.

(I'd also highlight that i have never hunted with hounds - excepting use of a longdog and lamp)

[Nick1986]

but the reason foxes are killing livestock such as chickens is a very simple one- man has enroached and destroyed their habitat. the more houses we build the more habitat destruction that goes on and the fox is therfore driven to despearte measures just to stay alive. that is why the fox will sometime s take chickens and such like. it is completely our fault that this is happening

[salukiwhippet]

Originally Posted by Nick1986

but the reason foxes are killing livestock such as chickens is a very simple one- man has enroached and destroyed their habitat. the more houses we build the more habitat destruction that goes on and the fox is therfore driven to despearte measures just to stay alive. that is why the fox will sometime s take chickens and such like. it is completely our fault that this is happening

Rubbish! Foxes have shared habitat with people for thousands of years, and choose to live near people for the easy pickings available. This is why population densities are higher in towns and cities than in the countryside.

What in your view should farmers/gamekeepers do to protect their livelihoods from foxes? Or they just pack it all in, and sell the land to developers?

James

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Nick1986

but the reason foxes are killing livestock such as chickens is a very simple one- man has enroached and destroyed their habitat. the more houses we build the more habitat destruction that goes on and the fox is therfore driven to despearte measures just to stay alive. that is why the fox will sometime s take chickens and such like. it is completely our fault that this is happening

yep - as james said , rubish - the fox is not driven by desperation , they are one of the most adaptable species out there which is why they are so numerous. in fact there are now more foxes in urban areas in the uk than there are in the countryside (living largely on scraps, bin waste, food put out for hedgehogs , worms, berries, and the odd rat, rabbit etc)

In the countryside foxes arernt drawn to chicken runs and pheasant pens (or ground nesting bird nests) out of desperation but because it is easier than chasing and catching a rabbit.

I do agree however that habitat destruction is one thing that has made GNB populations vulnerable to predation - as without it their numbers would be far higher and some predator pressure wouldnt matter. but so what - we are where we are and wishing it was different wont change anything.

and all the talk of "fault" is misleading and anthropomorphic anyway - yes the fox is just doing what comes naturally and it isnt its "fault" (although aniumals dont do abstract though anyway - this is pure projection of human feelings on to them) but so what.

the predation is happening and we can either let it happen or stop it. I agree non lethal means should be tried first , but if these are ineffective then what ?

[meinchewster]

same old same old, same idiots posting redundant arguments from the pro hunting pot.

Dont you all think, if hunting is the only saviour for our wild unimproved habitats and the only way to conserve then it is time to give up?

The economic gains brought about by hunting are tiny compared to most other sectors. If we have to hide behind hunting or conservations sake then legislation and common sense has failed miserably.

Why is it that that we should only seek to conserve wildlife or its human value, i.e how good it is to shoot or hunt, why is it that wildlife cannot be conserved for its wildlife value and not based soley on its scarcity?

Didnt want to get involved with this topic again as it a frustrating, sole destroying waste of time and only fuels my disbelief at some sections of our society.

Especially those who see hunting and control as a form of conservation, effectively psuedo-conservationists hiding a desire to kill for pleasure.