Hunting: From the hunters view

[Pat]

Originally Posted by Tails4wagging

Gamekeepers 'kill off' last hen harriers.

Need I say more?.

Gamekeepers 'kill off' last of hen harriers - Nature, Environment - The Independent

Makes you sick doesn't it. I'm waiting for someone to tell me now that I'm no expert and that I don't know anything about it

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Pat

Makes you sick doesn't it. I'm waiting for someone to tell me now that I'm no expert and that I don't know anything about it

I certainly agree that its sickening and that serious action should be taken against those responsible (and yes they are almost certainly keepers - BOP persecution in the uplands does correlate very strongly with grouse moor location).

however its not reasonable to extrapolate from this that all or even most keepers or shooters would condone this action anymore than it would be to determine all animal rights activists character from the behaviour of some extremists.

The future of the hen harrier lies not in vilifying all shooters or in expecting grouse moors not to be keepered , but in working with the land owners to preserve both grouse and harrier.

There is very little doubt that harriers do take grouse chicks but a new study at langholm moor (run jointly by NE, RSPB, and the estate) suggests that suplementary feeding of the harriers during the nesting season can virtually eliminate the taking of grouse chicks as a food item (84% reduction in the first two years of the study)

if this is proven it ought to be reasonably easy to "sell" to grouse estates as a solution, as suplementary feeding should be easier and cheaper than persecution.

removing keepering entirely from the moors would not be similiarly succesful (as demonstrated in the original langholm study) as removing the control of foxes etc has a serious negatie effect on harrier nesting success.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

Have you a link to this survey or a reference? I dont deny it im just interested as to how long its been carried out, what survey techniques were used etc?

Quite clearly there are exections, I was givng a genral opinion not so much on stone curlews but on removing predators from an ecosystem, its clearly a bad thing. Im sure you know the reasons why but ill expand if necessary.

I dont have a refference per se as the records are not in the public domain - I was privy to them as a warden. However I can tell you the survey technique because that was a large part of my job.

Basically the summer warden observes all returning stone curlew and records their colour ring combos , when they nest he logs the nest location and keeps it under regular observation (from a distance with a scope) , when the chicks are old enough they are ringed by the RSPB stone curlew team which allows for individual indentification. After this they are kept under regular surveilance until fledging and subsequent migration.

[Dogghound]

How would you go about telling the number of foxes so you can relate their numbers to numbers of chick mortality? Sounds like really interesting work, just as a matter of interest how are the stone curlews doing in your area?

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

How would you go about telling the number of foxes so you can relate their numbers to numbers of chick mortality? Sounds like really interesting work, just as a matter of interest how are the stone curlews doing in your area?

We didn't really census foxes (other than those killed in the years that control was in place) but it was noticeable that the number of birds fledging jumped after a part time gamekeeper was hired. So yes i suppose that it could be said that a direct link is not proven , but anectdotal evidence suggests that its there

I don't work there any more but i believe that the stone curlew is still doing well in the brecks , as it is in the wessex area and certain sites have been identified in between where the two populations are coming together.

Unfortunately it is also under pressure from egg colectors so i'm not going to give site locations on the open boards. But I'm happy to discuss this with you by pm if you would wish.