Fox Hunting

[Dogghound]

In my area, when the Fox hound is to old or ill to work, its left out in the countryside to fend for itself which it carnt realy do, normlly hit by a car or starves. I often come across these hounds. Not to friendly with other dog's either, not that it bothers mine he could hold his own against any Fox hound thats for sure.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

In my area, when the Fox hound is to old or ill to work, its left out in the countryside to fend for itself which it carnt realy do, normlly hit by a car or starves. I often come across these hounds. Not to friendly with other dog's either, not that it bothers mine he could hold his own against any Fox hound thats for sure.

When I was a child the hunt seemed to regularly go through the village, I'm glad it no longer does I would have been terrified for my cats - at least with bonfire night etc you know its coming and you can keep them in, I don't know what I'd do if I lost my cats to a hunt
(well i do and it might have involved dog-nap of the head huntsman's pet labrador)

[Lance Morgan]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

In my area, when the Fox hound is to old or ill to work, its left out in the countryside to fend for itself which it carnt realy do, normlly hit by a car or starves. I often come across these hounds. Not to friendly with other dog's either, not that it bothers mine he could hold his own against any Fox hound thats for sure.

surely it is illegal to abandon an animal like that

[C C]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

In my area, when the Fox hound is to old or ill to work, its left out in the countryside to fend for itself which it carnt realy do, normlly hit by a car or starves. I often come across these hounds. Not to friendly with other dog's either, not that it bothers mine he could hold his own against any Fox hound thats for sure.

Sorry Dogghound, but i disagree here. I have never known of any Hunts realeasing Dogs. The dogs that you have probably seen, are those that have split from the pack and have got lost.

And all the hounds i have come across have been really friendly, to me and my dogs. There is four Hunts in my vacinity. And if a hound is nasty to any other dogs, how are the kenneled together.

[Deerhunter]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

In my area, when the Fox hound is to old or ill to work, its left out in the countryside to fend for itself which it carnt realy do, normlly hit by a car or starves. I often come across these hounds. Not to friendly with other dog's either, not that it bothers mine he could hold his own against any Fox hound thats for sure.

I somehow don't think so !!

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by Deerhunter

I somehow don't think so !!

What part?

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by C C

Sorry Dogghound, but i disagree here. I have never known of any Hunts realeasing Dogs. The dogs that you have probably seen, are those that have split from the pack and have got lost.

And all the hounds i have come across have been really friendly, to me and my dogs. There is four Hunts in my vacinity. And if a hound is nasty to any other dogs, how are the kenneled together.

Different breed's react different to each other, after all foxes are dogs too.

[Deerhunter]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

What part?

I doubt very much if any hunt abandons its hounds on purpose. If they are no use any more they kill them.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by Deerhunter

I doubt very much if any hunt abandons its hounds on purpose. If they are no use any more they kill them.

Carnt argue with that

Maybe the hunter's near me are just forgetful.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by StuartDH

I don't know, but I also don't know that 'a lot of the time they're shut away...'. I 'm not sure how that could be proved to be the case, or that most are starved, other than through extensive research. What percentage of dogs are starved? One is obviously too many, but I wonder if it's far too much of a generalisation to suggest that all hunting dogs, or even many hunting dogs, are being treated in a particular way.

On the occasions when I've seen hunting dogs out and about I have to admit that I've never seen anything in their appearance that would suggest they're being ill-treated.

I was just speaking of my experience with certain hunts (about 3), that I myself have seen.

[Xanadu2]

Originally Posted by C C

And if a hound is nasty to any other dogs, how are the kenneled together.

Indeed! Whenever I come across hounds, which happens regularly because they trail-hunt in the hills around here, they look slim and fit.

I was at a country show watching a hound parade when the person next to me started up about the scars on the hounds and how they must have been fighting at night when there was no kennelman around to discipline them. I looked and I looked and there was no way I could see these scars, but there were a few old marks on some hounds that could have been caused by running through thickets.

Anyway, when I said: 'What scars?' he insited he could see them.

Make of that what you will.

[Hobjob]

Originally Posted by Cazzie

Thankfully no, I've not seen this happening around here.

I expect they just got 'told off'! They'll no doubt just move to another field/area and do it again - numbskulls...

Did you get the registration of the van Paul? Might be worth keeping your eyes peeled for it if you did.

But this may be like the ring-tailed harrier in West Norfolk.

How can the police _proove_ intent to hunt with dogs - the
owners will claim that they were just exercising their dogs
and they got off their leads, or jumped out unexpectedly when
the child opened the boot.

After all lots of labs, retrievers, Jack Russels etc set off
after Rabbits when out walking.

[bunnylover]

The hounds you see out on their own have most likely got lost ,not abandoned,everyone knows a hound and farmers normally gather them up and phone the kennels to collect.A hound that is no longer of any use would nt be out on a days hunting.
Again my point is THINK,don t blindly assume,huntsmen know more about animal welfare and adore their hounds than most and it is a dangerous thing to make statements based on isolated experiences.

Just to add the worst condition dogs i have ever seen where in a spca kennel ,no box ,no water,poor condition.Big sign outside read The *spca does not take stray or abandoned animals.What do they do??????
Yes i have photos of the kennels in question and if i could afford it i would bring a private prosecution against them.
Sorry for going of topic but since one organisation is being hammered i think some facts about opposition is only fair.

[Paul mabbott]

You think things are bad here?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/us...?_r=1&adxnnl=1
&oref=slogin&ref=us&adxnnlx=1195038384-/tOSgqAJkk9hdmwrLEWRdA

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

You think things are bad here?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/us...?_r=1&adxnnl=1
&oref=slogin&ref=us&adxnnlx=1195038384-/tOSgqAJkk9hdmwrLEWRdA

I couldn't get a page with that link. what was the subject of it?

[C C]

Originally Posted by Kerry

I couldn't get a page with that link. what was the subject of it?

I could not at first. Try clicking on the advert that shows?

[C C]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

You think things are bad here?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/us...?_r=1&adxnnl=1
&oref=slogin&ref=us&adxnnlx=1195038384-/tOSgqAJkk9hdmwrLEWRdA

America are alot more cruel with their animals . They still use leg hold traps. And they use a lot of poisons.

One method of poisoning, is the use of a trigger activated bait tube. It is a small tube placed in the ground, which contains poison, and a small explosive charge. This device is then baited, when Fox/Coyote attempts to eat bait, it sets of charge, which forces the poison into the animals throat.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by C C

I could not at first. Try clicking on the advert that shows?

I don't get an advert I get a page that says to gain access to the site I have to give them my email address and register. I never like giving my email out due to junk mail.

[Kerry]

I think that I have found the info that you mentioned if it is the Fox pens with dogs put in to chase them.

This is akin to bagged foxes in this country and also providing artifical earths to encourage the foxes to breed and live there so that the hunts have something to chase. Quite sickening.

[bunnylover]

In an ideal world nature could deal with itself but it doesn t it needs controlled predator species need controlling to prevent decimation of prey species,the introduction of alien species has added further to the need of pest control and when the over emotional and ill informed make up the majority then the eventual outcome will obviousely be a decline in prey species in our countryside.Oh and after a few years they ll say that the extinct or those on the brink was attributed to cruel hunters.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by bunnylover

In an ideal world nature could deal with itself but it doesn t it needs controlled predator species need controlling to prevent decimation of prey species,the introduction of alien species has added further to the need of pest control and when the over emotional and ill informed make up the majority then the eventual outcome will obviousely be a decline in prey species in our countryside.Oh and after a few years they ll say that the extinct or those on the brink was attributed to cruel hunters.

But the hunt actually encourage foxes so that they can hunt them. If they claim that they are doing it to keep the numbers down then why do they encourage them by providing artifical dens? Why have they caught foxes and released them specifically to be hunted?

[Xanadu2]

Originally Posted by Kerry

But the hunt actually encourage foxes so that they can hunt them. If they claim that they are doing it to keep the numbers down then why do they encourage them by providing artifical dens? Why have they caught foxes and released them specifically to be hunted?

Mention of artificial earths has brought me out of lurkdom again. As I said before, I try to stick to facts as far as I can. So I don’t intend to be judged as a hunter or anti, because then only people who already see things my way will listen. But this is a thread full of intelligent posters!

A number of artificial earths are known to exist, possibly because they are on land used for cattle or arable farming where the landowner can tolerate more foxes for the sake of ‘sport’. I’ve never lived in such an area, so can’t comment further.

Hunting activities have always been planned with the consent of the landowner, so I believe that to understand this you have to look at it from the farmers’ point of view. If a farmer is trying to earn a living from sheep, and also has a flock of free-range chickens in the farmyard, it is pointless telling him that foxes control their own numbers according to the available food supply. It is obvious to him that the Fox doesn’t know what food is off-limits, and chickens and lambs are vulnerable for reasons I‘ve already mentioned. Or, even if you think he’s wrong about that, the point is that if he believes foxes interfere with his livelihood, he is not going to tolerate extra foxes on his land.

Also I used to own a horse. I never hunted on her, so know how difficult it is to get permission to ride off-road because farmers dislike muddy hoofprints on the land they are trying to make a living from. So, if the assumption about artificial earths being common is correct, many farmers are enduring extra predation on chickens and lambs, plus lots of hoofprints and 4x4 tyre tracks all over their land at the muddiest time of year, yet they stand to gain nothing in the way of pest control! This sounds very unlikely to me. So artificial earths on neighbouring land could lead to friction between landowners, many of whom prefer a quiet life like the rest of us.

Also, farmers with woodland may gain extra income from shooting. Foxes in close proximity to a shoot are likely to be shot anyway, so artificial earths and pheasant shoots do not go well together! I’ve been told that the subscription that a rider pays to hunt on horseback for a whole season is about the same as the price of a single day’s shooting for one gun. So you can see where the money is.

Briefly, if the average hunt constructed an artificial earth, the average farmer where I live would be likely to go out with his gun and shoot the foxes dead, pretty **** quick, and also deny the hunt access to his land. So it seems hardly worth hunts going to the trouble. Also, if the farmer stood to gain pest control instead, he might even host a meet for them.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by Xanadu2

Mention of artificial earths has brought me out of lurkdom again. As I said before, I try to stick to facts as far as I can. So I don’t intend to be judged as a hunter or anti, because then only people who already see things my way will listen. But this is a thread full of intelligent posters!

A number of artificial earths are known to exist, possibly because they are on land used for cattle or arable farming where the landowner can tolerate more foxes for the sake of ‘sport’. I’ve never lived in such an area, so can’t comment further.

Hunting activities have always been planned with the consent of the landowner, so I believe that to understand this you have to look at it from the farmers’ point of view. If a farmer is trying to earn a living from sheep, and also has a flock of free-range chickens in the farmyard, it is pointless telling him that foxes control their own numbers according to the available food supply. It is obvious to him that the Fox doesn’t know what food is off-limits, and chickens and lambs are vulnerable for reasons I‘ve already mentioned. Or, even if you think he’s wrong about that, the point is that if he believes foxes interfere with his livelihood, he is not going to tolerate extra foxes on his land.

Also I used to own a horse. I never hunted on her, so know how difficult it is to get permission to ride off-road because farmers dislike muddy hoofprints on the land they are trying to make a living from. So, if the assumption about artificial earths being common is correct, many farmers are enduring extra predation on chickens and lambs, plus lots of hoofprints and 4x4 tyre tracks all over their land at the muddiest time of year, yet they stand to gain nothing in the way of pest control! This sounds very unlikely to me. So artificial earths on neighbouring land could lead to friction between landowners, many of whom prefer a quiet life like the rest of us.

Also, farmers with woodland may gain extra income from shooting. Foxes in close proximity to a shoot are likely to be shot anyway, so artificial earths and pheasant shoots do not go well together! I’ve been told that the subscription that a rider pays to hunt on horseback for a whole season is about the same as the price of a single day’s shooting for one gun. So you can see where the money is.

Briefly, if the average hunt constructed an artificial earth, the average farmer where I live would be likely to go out with his gun and shoot the foxes dead, pretty **** quick, and also deny the hunt access to his land. So it seems hardly worth hunts going to the trouble. Also, if the farmer stood to gain pest control instead, he might even host a meet for them.

The best reply to your post is to quote from the hunts themselves:

“In countries where earths are scarce it is sometimes found necessary to make artificial earths, to provide somewhere for local foxes to have their cubs : in other words, for breeding purposes. Another advantage of artificial earths is that in grass countries where the coverts tend to be small and scattered it is useful to have snug earths judiciously placed at regular intervals, thus persuading foxes to take a good line. An additional advantage is that if an artificial earth is left open, it will only take a few minutes to bolt a Fox. Also if it is a blank day, one knows where to go with some certainty of finding a Fox.........In this book I only wish to touch on the subject, and to tell you what my grandfather had to say. He felt that artificial earths should be primarily intended as breeding establishments, and so among the chief points to be borne in mind should be the aspect, position, soil, drainage and materials used for their construction.” (Fox-Hunting. The Duke of Beaufort. Pub. David & Charles. 1980. Page 141)

"Barry drew again down Lansdale Fell, found, and hunted over to Mill Beck, marking to ground in “Porter’s Parlour”. Now I would have attempted the short climb to where they were digging, but a very interesting Mr John Gregg came and spoke to me and told me the history of "Porters Parlour". It is the largest man-made borran ever known, built about 30 years ago by Ronnie Porter. A maze of pipes and entrances exists..........The