Hare Coursing

[StuartDH]

Originally Posted by poacher ladd

were did my posts go??
i thort you wanted a debate if not stop interfering with our hobbies

as far as I know they haven't gone anywhere. Click on your name and you'll see that you've got 6 posts

[poacher ladd]

ooh yer i found them ha
but yer i bet you have not tried living on £40 a week then you will know that keeping a good running dog is a serious investmant
also in regards too poaching i think iv been caght twice and booth times after talking too the people i have landed permissions as long as you leave wat you know will get you in trouble and take wat the land owner sees as a pest you cant be doing much rong especially if you eat the pests and i have never ever broken anyones fences or property as for setting lurchers on sheep well thats just plain nuts and garanteed too get the unwanted heat you dont want

[eeyore]

I agree to a point - as I said above i have tried living on 33 notes a week and it sure int easy - tho i didnt actually own a dog, i used to lamp with a air rifle and occasional borrow a mates long dog or go out together.

I also agree about most landowners being glad to see the back of bunnies - but why poach in the first place - surely it makes more sense to get permision before you start lamping rather than afterwards - less hassle all round.

And I definitely agree that the average poacher doesnt want to attract attention by trashing fences, etc but i'm not convinced that coursers and poachers have that much in common - those driving big 4x4s onto the land illegally for an illicit coursing meet dont really need the hare for the pot (the price of one of those big shiny four bys would feed me for a couple of years) they are doing it for sport and in the process getting the average lurcher man a bad name.

[poacher ladd]

well im not a corser and i aet all my game if it is too mangled or the ferrets kill underground then i give it too the dogs or ferrets

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Gelert

I feel the same about myself as a human being. I don't believe it's possible to eradicate, nor do I aspire to eradicating my aggression, destructiveness, coldness or hardness. Don't get me wrong, I also don't want to eradicate my gentleness, creativity, passion or tenderness. I want to accept and include it all and I want a life that includes it all to. My personal belief is that when we try to disown these aspects of ourselves they don't go away but they get projected or unconsciously expressed anyway. You may not agree.
So yes, sometimes I want to hunt for the hot ferocious joy of the hunt and that's something I'm not afraid of or ashamed of or want to reject. Infact, I think it makes me a better person.

I understand what you mean but why express that by kiling animals for no reason (speaking generally as I believe you when you say that you largely do pest control or for the pot). I am in touch with the full gamut of my emotions and express and control my agression , hardness etc through the medium of martial arts ( I am a double black belt) and through outdoor pursuits such as hiking, running etc.

When I hunt I view it as a distasteful necessity either of food or of conservation work - something which has to be done but in no way feels enjoyable or fun

It doubtless makes anyone a better person to be in touch with the full range of their emotions rather than denying them - but i'm not so sure that actually needing to kill an animal for no other reason than the feirce feral joy which you experience does actually make for a better individual.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by poacher ladd

well im not a corser and i aet all my game if it is too mangled or the ferrets kill underground then i give it too the dogs or ferrets

fair point - but i'm not clear how any of us are "interfering with your hobby" in that case, as this whole thread , and the original report to the police that kicked the whole thing off was about hare coursing not solo poaching rabbits

[Brains]

Originally Posted by Gelert

Brains I want to try to respond to your view that hunting should include a 'higher purpose' such as pest control or dinner. This feels quite risky to write, even on a forum, but I think it might come down to something about fundamental values and possibly aspirations for ourselves as individuals and for humans generally.
When I go out to hunt I hope either to do the job of pest control I've been asked to do and/or to catch something we can eat. But when I go out I don't go out because I want dinner, I go out because I want to hunt

....

I don't believe it's possible to eradicate, nor do I aspire to eradicating my aggression, destructiveness, coldness or hardness. Don't get me wrong, I also don't want to eradicate my gentleness, creativity, passion or tenderness. I want to accept and include it all and I want a life that includes it all to. My personal belief is that when we try to disown these aspects of ourselves they don't go away but they get projected or unconsciously expressed anyway. You may not agree.
So yes, sometimes I want to hunt for the hot ferocious joy of the hunt and that's something I'm not afraid of or ashamed of or want to reject. Infact, I think it makes me a better person.

Hi Gelert

I think that this is point where we fundamentally diverge in how we see what it is to live. I don't want to eradicate my aggression ... but I DO want to control it. And I don't want anything else to be harmed while it gets projected elsewhere. I don't want to be cold, or hard ... unless it's absolutely necessary. It's certainly not something I want to cultivate. The idea that in order to feel properly alive I must kill something is anathema to me. Why should any other living creature be harmed simply so that I can enjoy myself? It's a concept that I simply cannot understand.

I don't think that controlling many of these aspects of life means that I am a worse person, as implied by you saying that to embrace them makes you better. The 'hot ferocious joy' you get from the hunt others may get from football, rugby .... strictly come dancing even .... but none of those things involve harming anything else. We can embrace life fully, we can all live fully ... but we don't need to kill in order to do it.

[bunnylover]

Mink,fox ,rat,and grey squirrel etc all need to be controlled to maintain a natural balance and to give hares ,red squirrel and song birds etc which are all under pressure due to the predation of the former.Why can people not see the need for control?Its not the "wind in the willows".
Paul McCartney said he turned against hunting after watching the film Bambi when he was younger.What is wrong with these people
Surely educated thinking people can tell the difference between fiction and reality.
Hare coursing however was never about the killing of the hare and coursing clubs done more than anyone to preserve and create habitat for them.If the hare was killed then they certainly make a great meal.

[demicav]

Originally Posted by bunnylover

I find it absolutely amazing that people with interest in nature and countryside have no idea about hare coursingHare coursers aren t all cruel and barbaric and most have an interest in the preservation of the hare.Most on here are happy enough to buy and eat factory produced muck fed on its own kind ,yet take the moral upper hand on those who have the courage to kill and eat their food rather than rely on others to do the dirty work for themMost of the judges probably own cats and are happy enough to allow their cats out to course and kill wild animals ,but of course thats different in the eyes of the morally superior"animal lovers".
Just because something is illegal doesn t make it immoral.
Strange mentality ,chances are that the lads in question where coursing rabbits as most of the people who are quick to lift the phone and phone the police for a BIG SCENE wouldn t know the difference,pity.

I'm sure Paul wasn't looking for a big scene when he phoned the police. That's usually something that law abiding people do and Hare coursing is against the law. However I personally haven't got a problem with someone hunting for their own food, just can't imagine Rabbit or the like being that nice after it's been at by a dog. I'm against hunting for fun but hunting for food is something that at one time we all had to do, that or starve. Anyway that's just my view, certainly don't want to cause offence to anyone.

[Gelert]

I'm really enjoying this discussion but feel like language runs out at some point and I can't find words for certain kinds of experience. I don't think it's wrong for me to WANT to hunt and I'm pretty sure I've got a way of arguing my point, but I think I might need some time to gather my thoughts...thanks everyone who's responded to my posts in particular. I'll be back when I've worked out what I want to say