Children!

[bluecow]

Ok this is a small rant....


I regularly take my children to visit the various lakes and reserves which make up the cotswold water park area. We like to combine a days bird watching with other fun child orientated activities, so whilst we might visit the kiddy zoned parks for the rough and tumble, we will then decamp to another lake for some birdwatching.

This is where my rant comes in...

WHY OH WHY do many other birders feel the need to be rude, agressive and downright nasty to families with children who have come to spot birds too?

It can vary from general glaring and dirty looks, to tutting, and even outright confrontation about how "children do not belong here, why dont you F**k off and leave".

Children are literally our future, and surely their participation should be encouraged. Teaching them about conservation, ecology and giving them the love of our natural habitats can only be a good thing!

Naturally this also means them learning patience, how to be quiet and calm. The first time my son spotted a little egret he squealed with delight... of course that meant the egret beat a hasty retreat.

I realise it must be frustrating to other birders when hours of patience is ruined by an excited child, but why cant they see the big picture?

Most of the children I have seen are very well behaved, and working very hard to be patient and quiet. There is always going to be some noise with kids.... they are ALWAYS full of questions. Something we have been working on with my eldest is that she writes her questions now and I write replys, however my 5yr old son still whispers.

Can you suggest ways of allieviating the problems? In some of the locations its got so bad that I avoid visiting due to the attitudes of the regulars. Its such a shame that they cant understand the valuable lessons my kids are getting.

[htcdude]

When we went to Norfolk last year my littl'un was only 1. My wife isn't into birdwatching at all but she'd come for the walks. We went to a couple of reserves, and went to hides. My daughter was obviously making a bit of noise, but generally good, and those in the hide either weren't bothered, or thought it was nice we all came out.

I've got no issues with kids being around, so long as the parent is on top of at least trying to keep them quiet. However I can also appreciate that sometimes it's nice to sit in a hide or walk round a lake and have the peace and quiet.

What you faced though is just down right right and out of order, I certainly wouldn't put up with any

general glaring and dirty looks, to tutting, and even outright confrontation about how "children do not belong here, why dont you F**k off and leave".

and tell those people to go elsewhere if they didn't like it.

Nige

[Billabong Karen]

Dont you give up, you have as much right to watch the birds as anyone else!!! And yes, it is wonderful that you are bringing your children up to love wildlife - it will stand them in great stead.

Perhaps if you notice that at some spots there are truly dedicated bird watchers, trying to get a sighting of a rare bird, you might decide to take the little ones elsewhere, this is probably only politeness (not that you have been met with politeness yourself!!! ), and you dont want to be somewhere where you feel really unwelcome...

But generally speaking I would have thought most people would be sensible and realize that the world is a place of wonder for small children, and that it is the interests of our ever more threatened wildlife that the upcoming generation learns to love nature.

[AndrewA123]

I fully agree with both yourself and Nige's reply.

so long as parents are parenting and not permitting their children to run riot, then I have absolutely no issues at all, and I'd go as far as to say it's a pleasure to see children enjoying the finer sides of the environment as opposed to only wanting their games consoles etc.

I must admit, that all too often a hide can be taken over by a small group who believe it is their right to occupy it all day long, and to effectively bully others into not coming in or to leaving as soon as they do. These are the people I have issue with. I remember reading a line somewhere once before, but can't remember who it was by or where it was, but it was "We did not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we're borrowing it from our children". Something that the people you encountered would do well to remember.

As for the quote you mention, I'm sorry but I think I'd have been having a fair few words with both the culprit and the park ranger/warden. that is out of order and something we neither need nor want.

I hope you are not put off and continue to visit and enjoy your surroundings!

[Dogghound]

The birding world is rife with ego's and bad attitudes, in my experience. It is not just restricted to kids. I remember being in a hide last summer with three other birders a pair and a guy on his own (all in their 50s-60s). I did not know any of them. A redshank was on a scrape infront of us the guy on his own asked if it was a snipe, to which the other pair of birders just started sniggering and laughing at him then carried on their loud conversation, it was so rude. I then explained that it was a redshank and the difference between the two birds and pointed out a few other things to him that were around.

Quite sad that people dont have time for the younger generation, certainly around my neck of the woods ther are very few young birders and its no wonder. I am one of the youngest by a good 10-15 years, with maybe the exception of about 4 other people. I can see the importance of younger naturalists but there are many who are too ignorant to see it.

[tigertom]

Don't let the few put you off taking your children out with you on your bird watching trips it good that you are getting them interested in wildlife, I my self do not have problems (as rule) with parents out with there children on reserves or in hides and like to see them out learning rather than sat at home playing computer games or sat watching TV well done to for getting them interested
MIKE

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by bluecow

WHY OH WHY do many other birders feel the need to be rude, agressive and downright nasty to families with children who have come to spot birds too?

It can vary from general glaring and dirty looks, to tutting, and even outright confrontation about how "children do not belong here...".

Children are literally our future, and surely their participation should be encouraged. Teaching them about conservation, ecology and giving them the love of our natural habitats can only be a good thing!

Try not to let it get to you too much, and remember that for every birder who is rude/aggressive there will be others who will be pleased to see you encouraging your children - and who would be happy to help with this if they can (you don't give any real indication of how experienced you are, and may not need help with identification etc., but there will always be people who are happy to help if you are uncertain, and who are more often than not willing to let children, and others, have a look through their telescopes - at least while there's not much 'going on'!).

Many birdwatchers don't seem to realise that birds can often become accustomed to the quite high levels of noise in well used hides (although it is obviously good practice to try and teach children to be quite when birdwatching because noise and sudden movements do sometimes cause disturbance, and can disturb other birdwatchers even if they don't disturb the birds).

One thing that I have seen some people do when they enter hides with children is to quietly "apologise" in advance for any disturbance that might occur - this won't stop "tuts, disapproving glances, etc., but it should give you an indication of whether you have any 'friends' in the hide!

Originally Posted by Dogghound

The birding world is rife with ego's and bad attitudes, in my experience. It is not just restricted to kids. I remember being in a hide last summer with three other birders a pair and a guy on his own (all in their 50s-60s). I did not know any of them. A redshank was on a scrape infront of us the guy on his own asked if it was a snipe, to which the other pair of birders just started sniggering and laughing at him then carried on their loud conversation, it was so rude. I then explained that it was a redshank and the difference between the two birds and pointed out a few other things to him that were around.

It's a shame that this is something that happens - and I've seen it myself on more than one occasion. I won't say that I've never found a misidentification to be amusing, but there is no need to be rude - everyone makes mistakes, and everyone with an interest in wildlife should be encouraged, whatever their age.

Originally Posted by Dogghound

Quite sad that people dont have time for the younger generation, certainly around my neck of the woods ther are very few young birders and its no wonder. I am one of the youngest by a good 10-15 years, with maybe the exception of about 4 other people. I can see the importance of younger naturalists but there are many who are too ignorant to see it.

This comment makes me curious about how old you are Dogghound! From your depth of knowledge I'd always assumed that you had at least a fair few years behind you (don't take that the wrong way!).
I think that a lack of 'young' people with an interest in wildlife is a problem all over the country, though I think that quite a lot of people who have had the seeds of interest sown when they are young come back to wildlife later in life. Teenage years seem to be a period when many lose interest (I can't think what they might find more interesting at that age).

Thankfully some people do stay interested (or rekindle an interest) though.

[Brocakat]

Are you an R.S.P.B. member ? They have a very, very good Junior 'Division' or 'Group' called the Young Ornithologists Club ( Y.O.C. )

They have Local Groups, activities & Birdwatching etc etc holidays.

I have fond memories of staying at a Y.H.A. hostel in Northumberland back in 1967 called 'Rock Hall' , on such a holiday , the course being run by a knowlegeable chap known as ' B.P.' I thought it was a really great course !

Highly reccomended - Both the YOC & the holidays / outings they run.

[Wild-Woman]

Originally Posted by Brocakat

Are you an R.S.P.B. member ? They have a very, very good Junior 'Division' or 'Group' called the Young Ornithologists Club ( Y.O.C. )

They have Local Groups, activities & Birdwatching etc etc holidays.

I have fond memories of staying at a Y.H.A. hostel in Northumberland back in 1967 called 'Rock Hall' , on such a holiday , the course being run by a knowlegeable chap known as ' B.P.' I thought it was a really great course !

Highly reccomended - Both the YOC & the holidays / outings they run.

It's new name is Wildlife Explorers. Highly recommended. See local reserves for details.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by RoyW

This comment makes me curious about how old you are Dogghound! From your depth of knowledge I'd always assumed that you had at least a fair few years behind you (don't take that the wrong way!).

Im 25 years old Roy. Just very enthusiastic, got into wildlife at around 11 years old and have been hooked in a big way since.

I certainly feel well experienced in the whole younger generation topic as somene who has dealt with these kinds of attitudes in the past. Although I must stress that most birders are fine, a few let the others down.