Sparrowhawk attack

[Equinox]

Superb photos.

I have witnessed Sparrowhawks attacking birds at my feeder but never seen one successfully catch a bird.

[Fauna]

Originally Posted by Doggle Avaddit

This is not Nature, it's a set-up to procure photographs for resale.

The victim was enticed by the feeders, the victor was similarly enticed by the easy prey provided.

I'm with you on this one.

I also don't believe in feeding birds in this manner, and especially all year round. Is there a benefit to constantly suppling feed for these (mostly common) birds.

Just thought i get a moan in...

Regards...

[FUDGEY]

Originally Posted by Fauna

I'm with you on this one.

I also don't believe in feeding birds in this manner, and especially all year round. Is there a benefit to constantly suppling feed for these (mostly common) birds.

Regards...

Well I do believe in feeding birds in this manner for several reasons. I wont lie here, but one reason is photography and wildlife watching is my hobby and by doing this I get closer to nature and it gives me many many great moments almost every day. I also bring nature closer to many others who come to my hide and have given them experiences they will never forget. One man of nearly 80 years old was close to tears as it gave him close views of Jays, a bird he has wanted to see at close quarters all his life.
The benefit of feeding them is to help them through hard times. I dont know how many birds I would have helped survive last years hard winter, but if I were to guess Id say several hundred of many different species. At the end of the day its MY prerogative and Im not breaking any laws. By the looks of it we shouldnt interfere and if they die they die?

[FUDGEY]

Originally Posted by Doggle Avaddit

This is not Nature, it's a set-up to procure photographs for resale.

By the way I do not sell any photos now. Please get your facts right before spouting nonsense.

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by FUDGEY

By the way I do not sell any photos now. Please get your facts right before spouting nonsense.

Its just not worth replying to such tosh.. Fugdey
We all feed birds in our gardens so the same applies to most of the members on WAB a spawk means there is a good healthy supply of prey animals around.

[Doggle Avaddit]

Originally Posted by FUDGEY

Well I do believe in feeding birds in this manner for several reasons. I wont lie here, but one reason is photography and wildlife watching is my hobby and by doing this I get closer to nature and it gives me many many great moments almost every day. I also bring nature closer to many others who come to my hide and have given them experiences they will never forget. One man of nearly 80 years old was close to tears as it gave him close views of Jays, a bird he has wanted to see at close quarters all his life.
The benefit of feeding them is to help them through hard times. I dont know how many birds I would have helped survive last years hard winter, but if I were to guess Id say several hundred of many different species. At the end of the day its MY prerogative and Im not breaking any laws. By the looks of it we shouldnt interfere and if they die they die?

Fudgey, if you were an honest man, and I sincerely believe you are not, then you would have to admit that what you are really doing is manipulating Nature for your own ends.

Feeding the birds up to 5Kg of feed per day to boost their numbers, then putting up feeders to present these birds to predators so you can photograph them catching their prey, is surely nothing more than cynical manipulation.

Nailing a mouse to a log to photograph Jays trying to eat it, is much in the same league.

Likewise, spreading peanuts around badger sets to get photographs for your own ends has both ethical, and indeed legal issues.

Likewise, keeping a pike in a tank and throwing it a live Trout and posting the film on the net is at best distasteful. Why would you do that?



Fudgey, you are not doing any of this for the benefit of the animals, it is all for YOU.

[FUDGEY]

You think you know it all, but you know nothing.

I have been feeding these birds for 2 years now and I got my first shots of Sparrowhawk with kill only a couple of weeks ago. Are you stupid enough to think I would spend roughly 13000 hours yes 13 Thousand hours of my time and roughly £3500 to get a shot of a Hawk with a bird? Think about it.

It was a dead mouse that was pinned to a log and it wasnt even me that did it, a Pro photographer that wanted to do it. He actually brought a few mice that he trapped in his daughters house with him. This might be distasteful to some, but it didnt bother me. When he put them out the jays kept taking them too quickly so he used a drawing pin to pin it down, but still missed the shot.

I have been feeding Badgers for years, long before I took up photography so again your idea that I am doing this for my own ends is again a load of rubbish.

Finally why would I do that with a Pike? Well I was once an avid Pike angler (As you probably know) and this fish had been taken home by a Father and Son. I got the call from the Father boasting about his Sons catch and got invited round to see his prize. I asked what he was going to do with the fish and he said nothing. I noticed it was still moving and quickly took it home to my tank and I saved it. I held it in here until it fully recovered and yes I did feed it a trout. As an angler I had no problem with this back then either.

I think you might know me better than I know you and by the looks of it you have a problem with me for some reason. I can not think why, but jelousy seems to be the most likely theory. Not a nice thing to suffer from you know

[FUDGEY]

Doggle, I have just spent a bit of time looking through your post history to try work out if i know you personally. Its nice to see its not just me that you try and rile and most of your posts. It is no surprise to me to see the number of times your posts annoy others. Take a look through for yourself and instead of trying to pick faults with others it might be a good idea to start with yourself. I have came across a few people like you in my time and through experience I now know what to do when I do come across them and that is feel sorry for them. Come here and Ill give you a cuddle

[pressld2]

Originally Posted by Doggle Avaddit

Fudgey, if you were an honest man, and I sincerely believe you are not, then you would have to admit that what you are really doing is manipulating Nature for your own ends.

So rather than reading Fudgey's previous posts, to wit...

Originally Posted by FUDGEY

Well I do believe in feeding birds in this manner for several reasons. I wont lie here, but one reason is photography and wildlife watching is my hobby and by doing this I get closer to nature and it gives me many many great moments almost every day.

...you choose to just baldly call him a liar.

Originally Posted by Doggle Avaddit

Nailing a mouse to a log to photograph Jays trying to eat it, is much in the same league.

Nailing a mouse to a log and hanging up a feeder for the birds are morally and ethically equivalent are they? Words fail me.

Originally Posted by Doggle Avaddit

Likewise, spreading peanuts around badger sets to get photographs for your own ends has both ethical, and indeed legal issues.

Likewise, keeping a pike in a tank and throwing it a live Trout and posting the film on the net is at best distasteful. Why would you do that?

Totally irrelevant to this thread and nothing more than trolling.

End result: No longer wanted on WAB.

Dave P.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by Doggle Avaddit

Feeding the birds up to 5Kg of feed per day to boost their numbers, then putting up feeders to present these birds to predators so you can photograph them catching their prey, is surely nothing more than cynical manipulation.

Providing supplementary food during the winter without doubt helps improve the survival rates of birds. So many negative factors such as habitat loss, habitat change and agricultural intensification are impacting on populations; winter feeding can be the difference between life and death. The whole of Britain is influenced by man in one way or another so this kind of feeding is not particularly out of place. Birds suffer from frozen ground, low natural food supplies, long cold nights (which uses up energy staying warm) and short days resulting in less foraging time. Feeding farmland birds through HLS schemes which encourage the planting of wild bird crops is another example of artificially feeding birds for conservation purposes. Practices such as autumn sown crops and stubble spraying have significantly reduced the amount of food for birds like buntings. Without this intervention large areas would suffer population declines/extinctions. Artificial feeding also has other benefits to conservation such as helping species become re-established; help maintain populations through habitat change/management and to get close to birds to study them.

Feeding birds should be done in a responsible way though as there are negative implications to feeding birds. One which has been on WAB quite recently is disease. Lots of diseases which affect birds are contagious and can rapidly spread through a population. Feeding birds brings them together in large numbers (sometimes unnaturally large) this gives diseases the chance to rapidly spread through the population. These diseases also can potentially impacts on human’s, things like Salmonellosis (salmonella) and Yersiniosis (Yersinia - the group of bacteria responsible for the black death in the 14th Century) can be quite nasty in contracted from wild birds. Dependency is another potential negative factor, birds can become very reliant on a food source, usually this is not a huge problem but if feeding suddenly stops (particularly in a very cold spell) it can cause birds to starve, especially ones artificially kept in the area rather than migrating south or to other habitats. Feeding can also cause increases in certain species much to the detriment of others. I don’t feed peanuts in an area of woodland that I study for this exact reason. Peanuts tend to attract and support large numbers of blue tits and great tits these then outcompete other much more scarce species like marsh and willow tits. Artificial feeding can cause increased competition with the more dominant species prospering.

I personally think that care is needed when feeding birds, but I think your criticism of the OP in this case is unjust and over the top. There are both positive and negative with feeding birds but how can you judge someone you don’t know and a site you have not been too. I don’t feed during the breeding season or warmer months or autumn (unless I am attracting birds to an area for study). I think it is important that people also practice and learn about hygiene.

Originally Posted by Doggle Avaddit

Nailing a mouse to a log to photograph Jays trying to eat it, is much in the same league.

I dont see any issues with this as the mouse was already dead. There are no implications to the Jay, its no different from it finding a dead mouse within an area of woodland. They regularly feed on carrion, even road kill which is pretty much the same as this, fresh meat provided by humans. It he was piling hundreds of dead mice into a site and supporting unaturally high jay populations then ou may have had an argument.

Originally Posted by Doggle Avaddit

Likewise, spreading peanuts around badger sets to get photographs for your own ends has both ethical, and indeed legal issues.

There are no legal issues with this. Again it is down to responsibility and ensuring they dont become too dependent on surplus feeding. Irregular scatterings of peanuts etc for photography or watching is not going to cause any real problems to them.