Now there's real birders for you - but how do they do it?

[Deb London]

Somethings nagging away at me. Being female, I just have to ask.

On New Year's day I thought it would be fun to follow tradition and go to a popular local birding spot to enjoy, but also to record. I was curious to know how many species I would get. It was about 40. I did the circuit (with knobs on) decided I'd seen everything that was there, and went home, pleased with my total for 2 hours.

At the same time a renowned pair of local birders recorded 57 species. I wasn't too worried as they had been there for two hours before us, and were still there when we left. I also knew I'd missed out on a couple of ducks. But I also knew that there is a species they can't ever seem to get, so went out the very next day and got that one too and a few others. But I've still found less that they did, in three days and on three walks in three diverse habitats (in London).

Where am I going wrong? BTW I'm not worried about numbers, but I would like to know how to improve as I'm really curious as to how they can see things that I can't.

PS I know it's not important (it's the enjoying that matters, blah-de-blah) but like I say I just have to ask.

[PMG]

Possibly Deb they have also noted things heard calling or in song - some birders (I'm one) who takes note (as in I know when I've heard something) tho I don;t take 'notes' as in written records anymore (tho I poss should ...) Some birders will count things heard as well as seen - some won't. I think those that won't seem to feel that the person 'hearing' may mistake certain sounds and therefore unless the bird is seen the record cannot be 100% sure. Personally I feel confident enough with most things to know what I;ve heard and if I'm recording/writing down as I do on holiday - then my notes reflect this - and I will say 'heard not seen' after the name. Plus if I hear something singing that I don't recognise then I'm likely to try and see what is making that noise!

You will know yourself that things with wings can and do clear off at a moments notice so what one person sees one min can be gone the next and vice versa - the same with organised Bird Races - some species - even common ones - reliable at any other time - can be missing just cos you want one!

Pauline

[htcdude]

Do you know what species they were?

As mentioned already some birders can tell (some just think it ) every bird song/call apart and so will count it if it's flying overhead or hiding in the bushes.

Also a lot of birds will move around a lot, so if you're looking in the wrong place at the wrong time, you'll miss them, whereas if you're there all day, staying put for a while, things will pass in front of you.

It's funny because me and aeshna5 visit the same local patch fairly often (although we've never bumped into each other ) and he regularly reports Sparrowhawk and sometimes Stock Dove. I only saw a Sparrowhawk there once and that was yesterday (2 sightings of it actually) and I've never seen Stock Dove there! But I don't doubt him of course, it's just being there at the right time, knowing where to look and what to listen for.

Nige

[Kayleigh]

Maybe time of day is to be considered too as birds like owls are seen at dawn and dusk other birds feed at these times too.

Good luck..

[Dogghound]

Its all experience and ability to pick up on calls. You will find the more you go birding the more species you get used to and start to pick up.

[Deb London]

Thanks all. I will try and find out what I missed (17 species). Then I can try to work out why.

One was a owl, 'tis true Elaine, I should have been up before the lark! Two ducks, as I said, possibly the gull that I have no chance ID'ing until I've done a lot more time. Fieldfares and Redwings (I can understand missing a Redwing, but FIELDFARE! ) and Jackdaws.

Still TEN missing! In maybe a 2 km walk. That's one every 200 m.

PS

Originally Posted by htcdude

Do you know what species they were?

As mentioned already some birders can tell (some just think it ) every bird song/call apart and so will count it if it's flying overhead or hiding in the bushes.

Also a lot of birds will move around a lot, so if you're looking in the wrong place at the wrong time, you'll miss them, whereas if you're there all day, staying put for a while, things will pass in front of you.

It's funny because me and aeshna5 visit the same local patch fairly often (although we've never bumped into each other ) and he regularly reports Sparrowhawk and sometimes Stock Dove. I only saw a Sparrowhawk there once and that was yesterday (2 sightings of it actually) and I've never seen Stock Dove there! But I don't doubt him of course, it's just being there at the right time, knowing where to look and what to listen for.

Nige

Got the Stock Dove at least - feel a little better now. Now that one I do know (by sound).

PPS The thing about ears is that, in my case, they can be less deceiving than the eyes. Once you learn a sound properly it does help. Trouble is, I heard nothing I didn't recognise.

[wint]

Originally Posted by Deb London

At the same time a renowned pair of local birders recorded 57 species.

I reckon the answer is in the number of birders! The ability to look two ways at once is something most individuals don't have. Two pairs of ears is a big help too

[Shrike]

ther'll be stuff knocking about you dont see but eventually you should pick them up , like me on my own bit of patch there's stuff i've not seen yet , stonechat and green woody i think i've glimpsed at but not 100% , and in my 2 trips this year i'm missing loads that i know is around somewhere such as kingfisher , redshank and only sheer bloody mindedness waiting about an hour finally connected to my resident grey wag yesterday.

[poschiavanus]

Originally Posted by Deb London

Somethings nagging away at me. Being female, I just have to ask.

On New Year's day I thought it would be fun to follow tradition and go to a popular local birding spot to enjoy, but also to record. I was curious to know how many species I would get. It was about 40. I did the circuit (with knobs on) decided I'd seen everything that was there, and went home, pleased with my total for 2 hours.

At the same time a renowned pair of local birders recorded 57 species.... But I've still found less that they did, in three days and on three walks in three diverse habitats (in London).

Where am I going wrong? BTW I'm not worried about numbers, but I would like to know how to improve as I'm really curious as to how they can see things that I can't.

I think this is an interesting question, because getting high day list numbers relates to a whole host of issues related to birding technique. I haven't counted a day's birds for a while, but feel that I learnt quite a bit by trying to achieve higher day list counts.

Firstly, you are of course doing nothing wrong at all! 40 species in 2 hours birding sounds pretty good: I'd think people with day counts over 50 will spend a fair bit more time than that. Also 2 or more birders will be more productive than a single person, particularly with less obvious species.

In 2006 I took detailed notes of my 1st Jan birds. I had 3 species in the garden, but only started 'proper' birding at 10 am. By midday my list was around 33 species. At the end of the day (4 pm) it was 57 with 3 others only heard. Here's a list of the species which I expected to find but did not see that day: Kestrel, Stock Dove, Grey Wagtail, Stonechat, Nuthatch, Treecreeper, Jay, Rook, Reed Bunting.

A target list for 50 species in winter might look something like this (lowland Britain, inland, but with water) :

25 Non-passerines:

• Great Crested & Little Grebes, Heron, Cormorant (4)
• Ducks, Swans & Geese (9)
• Raptors (2)
• Pheasant, Coot & Moorhen (3)
• 3 Gulls (3)
• 3 Pigeons (3)
• A Woodpecker (1)

25 Passerines

• Pied Wagtail or Meadow Pipit or Skylark (1)
• Dunnock & Wren (2)
• Thrushes (6)
• House Sparrow & Starling (2)
• Tits & Long-tailed Tit (4)
• Crows (5)
• Goldcrest or Nuthatch or Treecreeper (1)
• Finches (3)
• Buntings (1)

In the right places there are plenty of other birds you ought to come across too (Kingfisher, Owls, Bittern, Little Egret, Lapwing, other waders) as well as additional members of groups already listed.

With a list like this: How many do you regularly see on your patch? How many can of these can you recognise calls? How many can you pick out in flight? What time of day do you see them? (Cormorant is rare for me on one local patch, but the lady I buy the paper from sees them all the time when she's opening the shop).

[Deb London]

Thanks all for your input. It's very interesting to compare notes and experiences.

Originally Posted by poschiavanus

I think this is an interesting question, because getting high day list numbers relates to a whole host of issues related to birding technique. I haven't counted a day's birds for a while, but feel that I learnt quite a bit by trying to achieve higher day list counts.

Firstly, you are of course doing nothing wrong at all! 40 species in 2 hours birding sounds pretty good: I'd think people with day counts over 50 will spend a fair bit more time than that. Also 2 or more birders will be more productive than a single person, particularly with less obvious species.

In 2006 I took detailed notes of my 1st Jan birds. I had 3 species in the garden, but only started 'proper' birding at 10 am. By midday my list was around 33 species. At the end of the day (4 pm) it was 57 with 3 others only heard. Here's a list of the species which I expected to find but did not see that day: Kestrel, Stock Dove, Grey Wagtail, Stonechat, Nuthatch, Treecreeper, Jay, Rook, Reed Bunting.

A target list for 50 species in winter might look something like this (lowland Britain, inland, but with water) :

25 Non-passerines:

• Great Crested & Little Grebes, Heron, Cormorant (4)
• Ducks, Swans & Geese (9)
• Raptors (2)
• Pheasant, Coot & Moorhen (3)
• 3 Gulls (3)
• 3 Pigeons (3)
• A Woodpecker (1)

25 Passerines

• Pied Wagtail or Meadow Pipit or Skylark (1)
• Dunnock & Wren (2)
• Thrushes (6)
• House Sparrow & Starling (2)
• Tits & Long-tailed Tit (4)
• Crows (5)
• Goldcrest or Nuthatch or Treecreeper (1)
• Finches (3)
• Buntings (1)

In the right places there are plenty of other birds you ought to come across too (Kingfisher, Owls, Bittern, Little Egret, Lapwing, other waders) as well as additional members of groups already listed.

With a list like this: How many do you regularly see on your patch? How many can of these can you recognise calls? How many can you pick out in flight? What time of day do you see them? (Cormorant is rare for me on one local patch, but the lady I buy the paper from sees them all the time when she's opening the shop).

Thanks for the list posch. It's useful in that I can compare what might be typical with what I actually saw, and it has interesting subdivisions that intrigue me because I never thought of dividing my list up (which is a pencil written mish-mash in semi note form, giving the order seen and nothing more). Hopefully this list will help others too.

I can feel confident that this area (where I was) is relatively rich in gulls and woodpeckers, but is poor in buntings (none seen) and some corvids (difficult to see 5, Rooks quite rare, Ravens very rare).

It also reminds me that I still have not seen a Collared Dove, which is now the second time this has happened and I'm not sure why I thought they were so common.

I think the main area where I (personally) fall down is seeing and identifying birds in flight. The only raptor on my list is a Tawny Owl (seen days later). In my life I have only never definitely ID'd a Peregrine and rarely spot Sparrowhawks on my own. I don't really know how to listen for Linnets, finches, larks and pipits.

I've certainly got lots to swat up on. Thanks.

PS Yes, and two pairs of eyes would help wint.