Chaffinch concern

[FUDGEY]

Hi all, Im a bit concerned as over the last few weeks 3 Male Chaffinches have died at my feeding station. When first noticed they are very lethargic and die a few minutes later. I remember this happened to two at this time last year too. They look perfectly normal, I studied two of them and seen no sign of illness. Its starnge how its always Males, but that might be a coincidence. What Im also worried about is how many die that I dont see. Can any one shed any light on why this is happening. They dont use the feeders and I clean them regularly any way. They feed of the hearts and wild bird seed I scatter on the forest floor. There are roughly 100 Chaffinches there daily. Hope some one can help, thanks.

PS, I doubt it, but is there any where that would do a post mortem on a dead one if I find another?

[Deb London]

I'm not sure you can get a postmortem done very easily, but I would suspect trich or one of the other diseases mentioned:

The RSPB: Advice: Trichomonosis in finches and other garden birds

I read on WAB that the floor can be where they pick the disease up (saliva/droppings). So now I try and ensure measures are in place to prevent this. For example, I move feeders around regularly. I only get Goldies and Tits, it's like the other finches know that feeders can make them ill.

Whatever it turns out to be - trich, someone else's poor hygiene at a nearby feeder, poisoning, whatever, you should stop feeding for a few weeks.

[PMG]

Deb is right Alan it will be the Trichomonosis worm parasite. We have had it on and off at the big table at the caravan site since last back end. We've broken the feeding cycling, cleaned everything and killed the sick birds - the trouble is by the time you know they are sick and need putting out of their misery they are very poorly and will most likely already pooed and spit in the loose feed and left infection. We knew that someone else on site was feeding too so when we broke the cycle they haven;t so the birds have come straight back as soon as we put the food back out and hey presto we get it again.

The tell-tale signs are birds very fluffed up - round looking like fluff balls - they can't swallow food and shake their heads a lot and food and saliva goes flying around, their bottoms are dirty and they drink a lot. Also poor staggery gait and can't fly upwards and they are left not able to get off the floor - then they look for somewhere dark to go and die - under the car, the van or into the holes in the wall. The design of our bird table with two big seed trays in a large wire case keeps the big birds and squirrels off but it does pass disease when it is rampant. Hanging feeders get chewed by the squirrel, knocked by the magpies and crows and doesn't feed the sheer amount of chaffs and greenies so we have a problem. The weather staying mild hasn't helped either. This last 5 months have been the worst we have seen for it - we were clear for 12 months prior to this last outbreak begining in the autumn.

Pauline

[FUDGEY]

As I said the Chaffinches dont use my feeders and only feed from the leaf litter where I spread the seed. There are two gardens that feed a quarter of a mile away each side too. A Sparrowhawk took one the other day and I assume she will be OK??? So what do i do just stop putting food on the floor for a while?

[AfternoonLemon]

It sounds so horrible and sad, I hope I never see a diseased bird

Each of my feeders take about a week to empty, and I have extras so that I can rotate them while I'm cleaning the others.

As mentioned though, first sign of disease and I'll pull the whole lot down. Better to have hungry birds that are still alive...

[PMG]

Originally Posted by FUDGEY

As I said the Chaffinches dont use my feeders and only feed from the leaf litter where I spread the seed. There are two gardens that feed a quarter of a mile away each side too. A Sparrowhawk took one the other day and I assume she will be OK??? So what do i do just stop putting food on the floor for a while?

Yes - just stop feeding everything altogether for about a week and then reintroduce slowly and see what happens - if you still see the problem - clear up and stop again for longer. You can still provide nuts in feeders esp if they don't have perches attached so that only birds able to cling can really get on them - yes I know chaffs and greenies have learned the trick but they can't hold on as long! You can keep fat balls out too as these will feed the tits and woodpeckers. Its the loose seed that is the problem tho scattering on the floor in different spots and rotating places is a very good way to do it so I suspect your poorly birds are getting infection somewhere else and bringing it to you rather than the other way around.

Pauline

PS I've been reading up on Trichomonosis since we saw a great tit which poss had it (tho that bird may have been struck with the spawk or glanced off a car) but it is transferable to other birds, tits can get it, pigeons have it and sparrowhawks that catch these poorly birds as food for their chicks risk their whole brood dying in the nest with it. So it seems its very easily spread.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by FUDGEY

Hi all, Im a bit concerned as over the last few weeks 3 Male Chaffinches have died at my feeding station. When first noticed they are very lethargic and die a few minutes later.

Is there anything else you can remember about these birds? Birds being lethargic is typical of a wide range of diseases. There is nothing to suggest that it has to be Trichomoniasis from what you have said. Trichomoniasis is quite evident as the bird often regurgitates and has a lot of discharge around the mouth. The crop and throat often swells meaning the bird struggles to breath or feed.

Diseases like Colibacillosis, Yersiniosis and Salmonellosis all show similar symtoms of fluffed up, weak, lathargic birds which can die quite quickly and certainly in the case of the latter are probably more common in the wild bird population that Trichomonas. It would be a mistake to automatically associate any sick bird with Trichomoniasis. Salmonellosis is very much a cold weather disease and also shows a tendancy to affect males more than females.

Yersiniosis is largely spread by rodents feeding over bird feed could this be an issue at the site?

Colibacillosis (E.coli), Salmonellosis (Salmonella) and Trichomoniasis are all spread to each other through droppings/saliva. This usually occurs at feeding sites.

As I have mentioned before (I think) Trichomoniasis is caused by a single celled parasite called Trichomonas gallinae rather than a worm.

Originally Posted by FUDGEY

I remember this happened to two at this time last year too. They look perfectly normal, I studied two of them and seen no sign of illness. Its starnge how its always Males, but that might be a coincidence. What Im also worried about is how many die that I dont see. Can any one shed any light on why this is happening. They dont use the feeders and I clean them regularly any way. They feed of the hearts and wild bird seed I scatter on the forest floor. There are roughly 100 Chaffinches there daily. Hope some one can help, thanks.

Unfortunately attracting large numbers of birds together often results in an increased risk of disease. Diseases are natural and you need to assess just how many are dying/how much of a problem this is. I think the advice offered is good and you should maybe give it feeding a rest for a couple of weeks until you stop seeing these dead birds and spreading the feed to different areas to lower the numbers at a given feeding site.

Originally Posted by FUDGEY

PS, I doubt it, but is there any where that would do a post mortem on a dead one if I find another?

You could, and some of the diseases can be identified although you often need to look at them through a microscope. I would personally advise that you leave any of these dead birds alone, if you do need to handle them wear a glove, E.coli and salmonella are not nice.

Trichomoniasis is often quite evident (and not a threat to humans) as it causes a yellow build up on the walls of the mouth and throat which can be quite distinctive if you remove the birds head (I did a bit of work for FERA before anybody asks).

[FUDGEY]

Thanks every one for those great responses. Dogghound, there are a lot of mice at the site. I delierately feed them in some places the birds cant get too. I did this as the Sparrowhawk feeds on them and I have Tawny Owl there in the evenings. You could well be on to something. The best example I can give is with the last one I found. When I got to my hide it seen my and started flapping furiously, but couldnt fly. It was difficult to catch at first, but I got it eventually to examine it briefly. It looked perfectly normal, bright eye etc so I placed it on a log in front of the hide in case it got better. It just sat there wide eyed for 15 minutes then quickly fell away as if it had been tranquilised. From starting to close his eyes until death took 5 minutes tops. Hope this helps a bit.

[Dogghound]

Sounds less like Trichomoniasis, although I dont think you could ever completely rule this out without seeing the bird.

It sounds more like Yersiniosis which can quickly develop and seemingly healthy birds can drop dead rapidly like how you describe. It causes damage to internal organs like the liver which might explain a bird not having the strength to fly.

Colibacillosis and Salmonellosis are usually more drawn out and birds are usually in worse condition before they eventually die. They also tend to loose weight and dont feed making they very boney and thin.

Although attracting lots of mice may give the tawny owl and other predators an easy ride, ecologicaly it is not always a good idea. Un-natural levels of mice (rodents) can cause all sorts of problems, not only disease but they also predate nests and put pressure on other groups through competition. There can often be associated problems near pheasant feeders which attract rodents, similarto this.

Im not saying this is what is happening as I can only speculate but it sounds like a likely option.

[FUDGEY]

Dogghound you are a very educated man and thanks for that. If it is Yersiniosis do I still stop feeding and what causes this? once again a huge thank you