Autumnwatch unsprung question

[FUDGEY]

On last nights show my question was aired on the show, but I didnt really get an answer. I asked how far would Starlings fly to get to a roost. Chris answered a good few Kilometres I guess, but I already worked that one out I was just wondering if they would fly say 50 miles?

[loripo]

I thought that must be you Good question - with those huge flocks they must gather in from quite a large area...
Looking forward to a 'proper' answer

[rossy]

dont forget you get quite a large influx that have migrated into britain from europe, fudgey. rossy.

[hank]

Well someone has to try to answer the question - if only to get one up on Packham!! My sources are Google, Wikipedia and an ASDA calculator ..........

If 250,000 Starlings lived 1 per sq ft , then they would need 250,000 square feet of space. This equals 150 acres or 2.34 square miles.

If they each lived in 1 square yard, then this would increase by a factor of 9 to 1350 acres or 21.06 square miles.

So we have an area the size of Cannock Chase ( 26 sq miles ) populated with a Starling in every square yard!

They probably wouldn't get on, so we'll give them an area of 100 square yards each. So, they all live in an area of 135000 acres which is 2100 square miles!

Northumberland has an area of 2018 square miles; ( No, I'm not saying they all come from Northumberland and have a Geordie accent! This just gives an idea of scale! ).


I thought it was an interesting question and was dissapointed not to get a clear answer from the 'experts' !

Anyone got a better guesstimate ??!

H.

[PMG]

Yes I recognised it was you too! And its a question I've been thinking about .... I've been watching the 100,000 at Leighton Moss recently and wondering what the catchment area is? Are many of the LM birds from Cumbria? There used to be a roost at Martin Mere but I didn;t see or hear many when there earlier in the week ....... I know of roosts at Marton Mere and Blackpool front roosting on the piers ......... We can only guess at where they are coming from but I can imagine some may be flying good distances of several miles?

Pauline

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by PMG

Yes I recognised it was you too! And its a question I've been thinking about .... I've been watching the 100,000 at Leighton Moss recently and wondering what the catchment area is? Are many of the LM birds from Cumbria? There used to be a roost at Martin Mere but I didn;t see or hear many when there earlier in the week ....... I know of roosts at Marton Mere and Blackpool front roosting on the piers ......... We can only guess at where they are coming from but I can imagine some may be flying good distances of several miles?

Pauline

Roost departure by European Starlings: Effects of competition and choice of feeding.
Ron W. Summers and Chris J. Feare.

European Starlings roost communally at night and roosts are largest in winter. From these roosts birds disperse each morning to feeding areas up to 50km, and exceptionally up to 80km away, although of course many individuals feed within these distances.

Starlings leave their roosts over a prolonged period in the morning with the last birds leaving up to 50 mins later than the first departures. By radio tracking individuals it was found that Starlings that fed further from the roost did not leave earlier than birds that fed nearby. First-year females left later than adult males but did not follow them. Farms differed significantly in the age structure of their feeding Starlings; some had proportionately more adults whilst others had proportionately more first-year birds.

So Pauline, as the distance from Leigh to Silverdale is approximately 78km it's possible (though unlikely!) that one or two of the starlings feeding in your garden may roost at Leighton Moss!

Cheers
Jonathan

[PMG]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Roost departure by European Starlings: Effects of competition and choice of feeding.
Ron W. Summers and Chris J. Feare.

European Starlings roost communally at night and roosts are largest in winter. From these roosts birds disperse each morning to feeding areas up to 50km, and exceptionally up to 80km away, although of course many individuals feed within these distances.

Starlings leave their roosts over a prolonged period in the morning with the last birds leaving up to 50 mins later than the first departures. By radio tracking individuals it was found that Starlings that fed further from the roost did not leave earlier than birds that fed nearby. First-year females left later than adult males but did not follow them. Farms differed significantly in the age structure of their feeding Starlings; some had proportionately more adults whilst others had proportionately more first-year birds.

So Pauline, as the distance from Leigh to Silverdale is approximately 78km it's possible (though unlikely!) that one or two of the starlings feeding in your garden may roost at Leighton Moss!

Cheers
Jonathan

Thank you Jonathan - thats very interesting - I suspected the distances might be quite a few miles - I reckon the 'Kiss me Quick' hats on some of the birds means they've been to a 'show on the pier'!!!! To be serious tho how fascinating ...... I'm now wondering what decides them which roost to go to? I'm assuming they stick with what they have been shown by the adults - the young going where the adults go and that follows on when the next generation appear. I've also watched single birds arriving to join the melee and wonder where they have been - or whether they have just missed the leaving time from wherever the gathering point is ........ I've seen little parties gathering away from LM - across the A6 in big trees and more come to join and they fly about randomly - some going down into the field to feed while others sit in the trees and on the wires and 'chat' ...... then suddenly its everyone out - time to go. It would be interesting to have a high vantage point - top of Warton Crag maybe a couple of hours before dark and try and track parties gathering .........

Pauline

[FUDGEY]

Great inf Jonathan, just what I wanted to know. Very interesting and I thought they would travel up to 50 miles. Thanks very much for that mate

[Adam Cheeseman]

Or as my Dad used to say, 'twice as far as half'.

Cheers,

Adam

[rossy]

Originally Posted by rossy

dont forget you get quite a large influx that have migrated into britain from europe, fudgey. rossy.

thats what i put fudgey. rossy.