Can't find an ID section

[Pipit]

Can someone help with an ID for this bird?
I know it looks like a Willow Warbler but in this particular area in Glasgow, the Willow's left ages ago so I am not sure if this may be a late leaver or stranded?
If indeed it is a Willow. Not a Chiff Chaff as no CC's ever reported in the area that I am aware of.
I was sitting on a stone when a rush of Blue Tits and Great Tits and Long-Tailed tits came over to the nearby shrubbery. They looked agitated so I am assuming a BOP had appeared and scared them off in my direction.

This is the only photograph I got off it before it was off with the others. What made it stick out amongst all the others was the wing bars on it. Willows don't have them?
Because of the wing bars, I was thinking Yellow Browed Warbler. I should be so lucky if it was
Anyway, what do you think? Stray Willow or what?

[Dogghound]

This is a chiffchaff. I think the wing bars must have been a trick of the light or another bird.

[dunlin]

I was just going to say chiffchaff, dark legs, less pronounced supercilium, quite dull underparts and pronounced eyering. But it looks like i'm copying dan now

[Pipit]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

This is a chiffchaff. I think the wing bars must have been a trick of the light or another bird.

Ah well, first time a Chiff Chaff has been spotted in the area then

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

This is a chiffchaff. I think the wing bars must have been a trick of the light or another bird.

If there were only relatively indistinct wing bars (rather than the obvious, in your face, wing bars usually shown by Yellow-browed Warblers), then it is possible that they were actually on this bird.
It's not unusual for northern and eastern Chiffchaffs to have narrow wing bars (as Dh - will know), and this individual does seem to be a very grey one which would be in keeping with the appearance of the Scandinavian
race, abietinus. I'm not going to try and claim that the race can be identified from this photo though!

Originally Posted by Pipit

Ah well, first time a Chiff Chaff has been spotted in the area then

I'd be very surprised if Chiffchaffs don't regularly pass through your area in the spring and autumn at the very least (and fairly surprised if there aren't at least a few breeding pairs, and the occasional wintering individual, not too far away - though they are far scarcer than Willow Warblers as a breeding species in Scotland).

[Pipit]

Originally Posted by RoyW

If there were only relatively indistinct wing bars (rather than the obvious, in your face, wing bars usually shown by Yellow-browed Warblers), then it is possible that they were actually on this bird.
It's not unusual for northern and eastern Chiffchaffs to have narrow wing bars (as Dh - will know), and this individual does seem to be a very grey one which would be in keeping with the appearance of the Scandinavian
race, abietinus. I'm not going to try and claim that the race can be identified from this photo though!




I'd be very surprised if Chiffchaffs don't regularly pass through your area in the spring and autumn at the very least (and fairly surprised if there aren't at least a few breeding pairs, and the occasional wintering individual, not too far away - though they are far scarcer than Willow Warblers as a breeding species in Scotland).

Chiff chaffs do not stay/breed in this particular area although it would be nice if they did. I.ve been there for the past 2 years almost every day during the breeding seasons and only Willow Warblers breed there.
I guess this one was just passing and hooked up with the tits for "company"
Just a pity I only managed the one photo but I accept it was a Chiff Chaff. Would have been great if it was a yellow browed though LOL

Thanks for the info regarding Scandanavian origion and all other things related to the bird/s in question.

P.S.
Also just had e mail from expert confirming that it is indeed a Siberian ChiffChaff.
I thought Chiffs came from the African continent to breed here in the summer. I have a lot to learn LOL

[Dogghound]

I agree with Roy that it shows a number of abietinus features, however would be good to get a better view of the wing, upper parts and rump before trying to assign it to this race, this bird is very grey and has a classic abietinus look, although the supercilium is a little wrong.

This bird does not look like tristris (Siberian) to me, what criteria is your friend going on?

The fact they do not breed in an area does not mean they dont exist. Chiffchaff are very common and very widespread and there can be few areas of Britain which have never recorded one.

Chiffchaffs breed across Europe and Asia and winter in Africa and south Asia i.e. India. Depending on the sub-species.

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by Pipit

Chiff chaffs do not stay/breed in this particular area although it would be nice if they did. I.ve been there for the past 2 years almost every day during the breeding seasons and only Willow Warblers breed there.

Although they may not breed in your immediate area, I stand by the suggestion that they will breed somewhere not too far away. Both the 1968-72 and the 1988-91 BTO breeding bird atlases show confirmed breeding of Chiffchaffs in all of the 10km squares in the Glasgow area, although this is at low densities. Of course, if you are actually c70km north of Glasgow, records of breeding Chiffchaff are likely to occur only irregularly in this region - but I would still very much doubt that there are no records, unless there has been very poor coverage in the past (pairs may only breed every few years, so could easily be overlooked - especially as the males probably won't sing much after attracting a mate if no competitors are singing in the area).

Originally Posted by Pipit

P.S.
Also just had e mail from expert confirming that it is indeed a Siberian ChiffChaff.

I agree with Dogghound, that this bird doesn't look like a Siberian Chiffchaff (tristis) in the photo. If it is something other than 'just' a rather grey collybita individual (the race that breeds in the UK), then I would think that Scandinavian Chiffchaff (abietinus), or an intergrade between abietinus and collybita, is a better ID based on what can be seen in the photo. I also agree that it would be unwise to state that the race of this bird can conclusively be identified from a single photo (especially as this identification would be relying largely on plumage tones, which can vary considerably in digital photos because of lighting conditions and/camera settings.

[Pipit]

It was taken at the old dry docks in Govan. South side of Glasgow.
They may well indeed stop in passing as few birds do that in the area like Reed Buntings and Goldcrests etc but don't stay. Due to only getting one photograph, I am just happy with a ChiffChaff record

>Thank you for your reply and the picture. It certainly is a Chiffchaff, and the picture is good enough to identify it as an Eastern race, probably P.c.tristis, commonly known as a Siberian Chiffchaff. Quite a high proportion of Chiffchaffs wintering in Britain belong to this race.

A good record!

Thanks,

Iain Gibson
Clyde Recorder
Scottish Ornithologists' Club<

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by Pipit

It was taken at the old dry docks in Govan. South side of Glasgow.

It is very likely that the preferred breeding habitat, which typically includes stands of mature trees, isn't present on this site - they won't be far off as a breeding species though, and will almost certainly be a regular passage visitor (even if scarce).

It certainly is a Chiffchaff, and the picture is good enough to identify it as an Eastern race, probably P.c.tristis, commonly known as a Siberian Chiffchaff. Quite a high proportion of Chiffchaffs wintering in Britain belong to this race.

I would certainly dispute both the suggestion that this photo allows certain identification as one of the eastern races, and that a "high" proportion of the Chiffchaff wintering in Britain are tristis.

Grey Chiffchaffs, like this one, are more likely to be of Scandinavian origin that Siberian (though some of the collybita race birds that breed in the UK can apparently also be very grey). True tristis show brown/buff tones rather than being grey and white, and should have no yellow tones away from the underwing (to my eyes the breast and flanks show traces of yellow in the photo).

tristis are a scarce autumn passage migrant to the UK, with perhaps 150 at most reported in Oct-Nov each year, plus small numbers during the winter and spring, which compares to an absolute minimum of ten times this number of abietinus each autumn. The numbers of Siberian Chiffchaff reported in the UK during the winter are low, perhaps 30-50 at most, which equates to about 1% of the Chiffchaffs wintering in the UK, perhaps less (hardly what I'd call a high proportion).

Regardless, it's a good photo, which in all likelihood shows a Scandinavian Chiffchaff, in my opinion - and if it's the first one that you've personally recorded at a site you watch regularly then it's a good record for you.