The bird paparazzi.............

[nightowl57]

I was in a hide recently and I was the only one there to watch the birds with binoculars, all the other people had digital cameras with enormous lens on them
who photographed anything and everything that moved. As soon as a bird had landed it was like a barrage of digital cameras whirring and making so much noise the bird took to the air. In my opinion these hides are provided so we can observe the birds etc in their natural habitat without disturbing them and the paparazzia are certainly making the birds take flight when they start.

[Deb London]

OMG, don't get me started about people being loud in hides. I could clock some people. I expect and allow for kids to be noisy, but in two hides at Rye Meads recently there was at least one very loud and opinionated man. I was there to listen as well as look. People don't get that.

[RoyW]

There are now quite a few people who get into photography first, and then decide that they want to turn to nature photography without first learning the fieldcraft. In many cases you will find that the more experienced bird photographers won't actually be in hides on reserves because they know that the disturbance will often limit photographic opportunities (or they will only be there at quieter times).

Often though it is not actually noise from within a hide that causes disturbance (movement from within the hide and lens being poked out is more likely to flush a bird though). I used to volunteer regularly to show people birds from the Bittern Watchpoint hide in the River Lee Country Park (not so much now due to time restrictions), and I know that although people regularly complained about the level of noise in the hide, the birds would should just as well whether the hide was packed (and noisy) or empty. Noise is often more of an issue for other people in hides than it is for the birds - I'm not disputing the fact that birds landing close to a hide are sometimes flushed by the ocupants though.

In general I would say that hides (and the paths to them) are provided to try and minimize disturbance, but also to help keep people, and the disturbance they produce, away from other areas.

[Deb London]

It is true that the wildlife should be given priority and that there will probably be plenty of places in the reserve for the birds etc to go to to get some peace. But sometimes you just want to turn to them and say "For goodness sake, give it a rest".

[fairplay]

I think it's a problem that can only get worse as more and more people buy these huge telephoto lenses and all the digi-scoping gear. Tripods are essential, and when a hide is chock a block with tripods it becomes a nightmare. I wonder if there has ever been any domino effects where one falling tripod brings down all the others ! Ouch.

But living on the Suffolk Coast, I see a lot of this when rarities such as Red Eyed Vireo turn up - in exactly the same area as I used to walk the German Shepherd. On this occasion the poor little mite was being hounded everywhere with the twitchers following it from bush to bush, tree to tree and I had a real worry about the dog lead causing somebody's tripod to fall over - who pays for the damage in a case like this ?

I can't really complain though as if I hadn't had seen them all, I would never have known we had a rarity near the village and one chap did let me have a look through his scope.

Neil.

[Wild-Woman]

I can see where you are coming from Neil but I think the majority of seasoned photographers use a bit of common sense when they are in hides. I think it all boils down to manners and a bit of respect for the bird and other hide users. What does make me cross is some folks inability to share the accomodation in a respectful way- an example being seat- hoggers who have taken up residence and will not budge to let someone else have a look. If a hide is near empty- then all well and good, fill your boots, but when it becomes busy, think of others and if necessary come back later when it's quieter.
I don't see taking the odd shot, amongst people who are watching, should be a problem.
Like I said - manners and respect. Works wonders.

[John]

As far as I am aware a barrage of cameras clicking away is not going to scare off the birds. It might test your patience but in the end a hide is not exclusively for your purposes only.

What could flush birds (as Roy W has intimated) is poking the lens through the hide windows then you have a genuine beef if that is going on. Also (nothing to do with the birds) the selfish way some photographers just hog up as much room on the benches as they can annoys me. In fact there is one reserve close to where I live that I won't visit anymore because when you do you see the same faces in the same hide time after time trying to get that killer Kingfisher or Hobby etc shot and even when they get it they come back for more.

These selfish photographers don't even recognise the fact that other birders and photographers open the door, look in then walk back out because there is no room left.

Going back to noise levels scaring birds. Hides are a great place for families. Here the kids can learn the basics of birding, or just enjoy the spectacle of wildlife going about their business but why oh why do you get some parents or guardians that treat them like playgrounds and let them run riot. No self respecting bird is going to put up with that and will quickly move away.

This also goes for the loud mouthedf birder that thinks he knows everything about birding and wants the rest of the hide to know it.

Oh well, that's got that off my chest!!

John

[earthdragon64]

I've seen it from the other side of the opening post, being one of only a small number in a hide with a camera and binoculars whilst everyone else had binoculars and/or scopes and showed little consideration for any others in the hide.

This was a couple of years ago at Capercaillie watch at the RSPB reserve at Loch Garten and it's an experience I won't repeat, most people there were purely list tickers and there was an awful lot of shoving and jostling going on. I go to Loch Garten for the Ospreys quite often as it's so close and that's a completely different experience, much more relaxed and genteel.

I don't think any particular group has the monopoly on good or bad manners.

Regards, Audrey.

[gobbiner]

Originally Posted by Wild-Woman

manners and respect. Works wonders.

Thats what its all about, manners and respect nothing to do with photographers, you come across it in most walks of life, i take photos in hides and i can honestly say i havnt upset anyone nor would i want to people are the problem not Cameras and Lenses after all if theres a Tripod in your way it didnt get there itself a irresponsible person put it there

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by RoyW

There are now quite a few people who get into photography first, and then decide that they want to turn to nature photography without first learning the fieldcraft.......

That's absolutely right Roy - you only have to read some of the comments on some photography forums to realise the lack of subject knowledge amongst many so-called 'nature photographers'. In truth many of them are simply interested in getting the shot (often at any price) rather than having any real interest in their subjects

Originally Posted by RoyW

......In many cases you will find that the more experienced bird photographers won't actually be in hides on reserves because they know that the disturbance will often limit photographic opportunities (or they will only be there at quieter times).........

And that's also true, certainly in my case

Originally Posted by earthdragon64

.......I don't think any particular group has the monopoly on good or bad manners......

Indeed so Audrey

Jeff
(Schedule 1 Licence holder for Kingfishers, Barn Owls and Avocets)