BOP help please

[tigertom]

Been out today and have seen what I think is a rough legged buzzard juv/1st winter bird 1st seen on ground in a winter grain Field new crop just coming though. Watched this bird for well over an hour from about 120 mts may be w bit more, when looking at it head on one the ground, breast off white yellowish lightly streaked then form just above the legs down to base of tail darker showing as dark band when in flight, wings looked longer than a common buzzard. On the underside of the wings under wing coverts off white yellowish with dark patch on each wing very visible just above knuckle primary's and secondaries off white No trailing band that I could see. Head looked pale. I did not get A good look at the top of wings. most of time we were watching this bird it would be on ground walking round or would fly up in to oak tree and perch low in this, then every now and then sort of jump fly back to ground for a bit (a bit like a robin dos to pic up food) and also hovered a few times when doing this it was very good at it, looking a lot like a big kestrel flapping wings to keep in same spot in just the same way did not get a great look at tail but was very light on the underside it was a pity we could not get a closer look but had to stay on the track, we had asked the farmer could we go down side of his field but no he would not let us
My mate is of back down to were we saw it tomorrow with camera in hope its still around hope it is and he can get a pic.
If is rough legged would a great find for cheshire
MIKE
Note have done a serch on web for pics of rough legged and found a few that match what I seen.

[aeshna5]

It would be good to get a photo to confirm one way or another as Common Buzzards can be pale + there's little to eliminate this from the description.

Fingers crossed for you that it is the rarer cousin.

[Dogghound]

What was its tail like?

When you said it had longer wings how were you judging this?

Buzzards are so variable, it is very hard to say yes or no from a description like this. Juveniles, colour morphs, different sexes all show differences.

[Shrike]

Hi Dogghound , we never got great view of its tail there was white thereabouts but cant say for certain on black tail band,it was quite a distance and farmer in his yard wouldnt let us through.All i can reitterate was the creamiest of breast and dark belly and its expert hovering on a few occasions one of them for about 10 seconds over tree before landing in tree.

[tigertom]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

What was its tail like?

When you said it had longer wings how were you judging this?

Buzzards are so variable, it is very hard to say yes or no from a description like this. Juveniles, colour morphs, different sexes all show differences.

Using its body length compared to the wing length would say wings longer than what I would expect on common buzzard and longer than on a common buzzard I did see over head by my house later on. I would say I am a pretty good judge of size and length of birds, but even saying that I know a positive ID is not really possible do to points you raised and we did/do need to get a far better look at this bird to get an id we did not get a good look at legs or tail which would of been a help so hope it still around tomorrow and and a pic can be got.

[Dogghound]

You need to get a good look at the tail, it is quite distinctive, common buzzards can be similar but they always show much more fine barring through the tail. You need to compare the primary projection with the tail length when it is not in flight. The rough leg has slightly longer wings which project beyond the tail, in the common the wings dont go beyond the tail tip, the difference is slight and you would not be able to tell in flight, unless perhaps you were used to seeing both species regularly.

[Shrike]

these were the best i could get today i think we'll need to go back again

[RoyW]

Hi Shrike/Tigertom,
Your images show a pale common Buzzard. Rough-legs are less variable than Common Buzzard and wouldn't look like this one.

[Dogghound]

I agree with Roy, on this, the bird is more typical of a pale morph common buzzard and looks distinctively different to a rough leg on the breast and belly.

[Shrike]

cheers DH and Roy ,excitement over, oh well a really nice looking common buzzard it is , the over cropped pics dont do it justice.