Birds and Cats

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by hels

However, a couple of you have stated that predation by cats is not natural behaviour. How can you state that it is not natural for a meat-eating, hunting predator to...well, hunt meat?

As Jason and Dogghound have already said, it hasn't been said that hunting by cats is not natural behaviour, just that the level of predation isn't natural - domestic cats are unlikely to die from starvation when there are low numbers of potential prey species, and will typically be treated if they become ill - and they may be present in densities that are well above the numbers that the ecosystem could support of a similar wild predator.

Originally Posted by hels

I take your point completely re population sizes and ecological effect. However, I will continue to maintain that the blame should be pointed at humans, not cats.

Did you read what I said in post 34?

[rossy]

Originally Posted by hels

While I'll happily accept that the "domestic cat" is not a native species per se, I will make 2 points.

The Scottish wildcat is a native species, and whilst fair enough not all domestic cats can trace their origins back to scottish wildcats, we do have native cats.
And yes before anyone says, I am well aware that birds do not make up a significant part of the wildcats diet, I am merely stating a link.

Secondly...and I may get shouted at here...but define a native species. Rabbits aren't native. Neither are little owls. Or edible dormice. My personal opinion is that domestic cats have been in the country for a long time and should be classed as naturalised.

Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying cats should be allowed to run rampant, not denying the effect that they have on the ecosystem.

But let's be honest here, the reason that there are so many cats is down to humans. Ultimately, we are responsible for the problems that bird populations may be suffering as a result of our efforts to live in harmony with cats as pest control. Cats do what comes naturally to them, they don't have a conscience, just instinct.
Hmm...I think I'll stop before I go any further into my *stupid things humans have done* rant! :-D

can you explain . cats do what comes naturally to them. domesticated cats are fed or are supposed to be by thier owners, problem here is , how many get thrown out onto the streets ? because also its easy for owners to let them come and go willy nilly, and oh lets not forget about the folk who and dont take this the wrong way, have feeders in the garden, then have a CAT, sorry but that baffles me. if you love birds , simple dont have a CAT. but if you do keep it in. at the end of the day its up to each individual, if you want to have a CAT. but they are a serious threat to our garden birds, and migrant birds, that fly thousands of miles only to be nailed by CATS .as ive put whether folk like it or not they are PESTS. rossy.

[captaincarot]

it's very simple, if you care anything at all about britains native wildlife, you either, do not own a cat, or you keep that cat in doors at all times,

allowing a cat outside unrestrained means you care for nothing but yourself and your cat.

there is no difference between you going outside your house and shooting lots of small animals and birds and allowing your cat to kill them, the animals and birds are still dead and became so as a direct consequence of your actions.

[~T~]

Originally Posted by rossy

can you explain . cats do what comes naturally to them. domesticated cats are fed or are supposed to be by thier owners, problem here is , how many get thrown out onto the streets ? because also its easy for owners to let them come and go willy nilly, and oh lets not forget about the folk who and dont take this the wrong way, have feeders in the garden, then have a CAT, sorry but that baffles me. if you love birds , simple dont have a CAT. but if you do keep it in. at the end of the day its up to each individual, if you want to have a CAT. but they are a serious threat to our garden birds, and migrant birds, that fly thousands of miles only to be nailed by CATS .as ive put whether folk like it or not they are PESTS. rossy.

My neighbours across the road from me do that and it really annoys me. They have 4 cats yet have a bird table, 3 bird boxes and put out food and feeders for the birds all the time. It really annoys me. I was considering stopping feeding in my own garden because of them. Thankfully only 2 venture out of their garden and these quickly realised that coming into my garden was not in their best interests

[Kayleigh]

If you own a cat then ask yourself why do the neighbours get angry and upset when your cat strolls into your neighbours garden and kills the very thing they are trying to attract, to some our gardens are like mini nature reserves we choose not to own a cat but have them forced on us as we have no say in stopping them entering and killing the wildlife in our own gardens,..
How many cat owners would put up with my dog entering their garden killing their wildlife and there is nothing they can do about about.
What a selfish attitude you have.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by hels

When I am in work, I sometimes take our guard dog for a walk. When he sees a rabbit - or a bird - his absolute first instinct is to chase it. The only reason he doesn't catch anything is because he is incapable of stealth.

Interesting. So if the dog were, let's say, a lurcher and it did have the stealth and speed to catch rabbits and birds, what would you do? Would you allow it to capture and kill any creature it desired? Or would you prevent it, by training it correctly, putting it on a lead or keeping it kennelled?

Cheers
Jonathan

[retired]

Originally Posted by captaincarot

it's very simple, if you care anything at all about britains native wildlife, you either, do not own a cat, or you keep that cat in doors at all times,

allowing a cat outside unrestrained means you care for nothing but yourself and your cat.

there is no difference between you going outside your house and shooting lots of small animals and birds and allowing your cat to kill them, the animals and birds are still dead and became so as a direct consequence of your actions.

What a totally insane statement.

By this logic I should no longer put bird feeders up (and perhaps promote the survival of some of the "red" species) just because my cat may predate one or two, of them which she doesn't as I am a responsible owner and take all steps to prevent her from doing so.

Better to starve the birds then in my village by your logic ???

I think I had better not fill the feeders tommorow as it will upset too many people on this forum as my cat will be outside at the same time.

[Jason Green]

Anyone like some tea?

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

Anyone like some tea?

[FungiJohn]

As is typical of this type of thread and certain members like captaincarot whose sole purpose it seems is to hijack threads, cause arguments and evoke others to react in a similar way.

Given that this 'cat' thread, like all the others before has reached the same dead end I will now close it.

Thanks to all the people who contributed positively.

John